Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
No More 15-Minute Adventuring Day: Campsites
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Primitive Screwhead" data-source="post: 5760852" data-attributes="member: 20805"><p>Maybe I used the wrong term there.</p><p></p><p>Spells in fiction are often powerful exertions of arcane/divine over the normal rules of the world. The author times the use of spells appropriate to the plot line and the results are rarely occurring, mythic events.</p><p></p><p>In RPGs, the timing of the use of the spells is handed over to the player. In earlier editions the power was retained and restrictions places on the timing {has to be memorized, uses components, etc..} to try and keep spells in the niche they hold in fiction.</p><p></p><p> As the editions wore on, the power of spells dropped along with the restrictions of use. Now in 4e a decent level Mage can cast Magic Missile all day long... but now the spell is roughly the equivalent of a highly accurate crossbow. No longer can a Mage cast Wish and most of the other spells have been nerfed from their original form.</p><p> Along the way you get more predictability and less *cool*</p><p> This is 'as intended', as most players get very upset over a character whose shtick is randomly nerfed and unreliable. Its hard to be heroic if you have a chance of your attack fizzling 'just because'.</p><p> On the other hand, its hard to be heroic when your attacks deal wimpy damage but can be used every round.</p><p></p><p>The 15 minute day comes from the play style in which Spells were seen as required to survive since they were the most powerful tool the players had. 4E worked to get rid of that by leveling the powers {literally} and for the most part succeeded.</p><p></p><p>However some DMs will still run level+5 encounters instead of realizing that the new math balances at level equivalent very nicely {level -2 or -4 for Solos} That leads to the Nova response from the players.. or maybe it derives from the players going Nova and losing the feel of a challenge.</p><p> Either way, the answer is to lower the threat of the individual encounter and expand the threat of the adventuring day.</p><p></p><p>Now if we are talking 5e.. perhaps Spells need to shift back into the less often used/more powerful realm. Perhaps using reserve spells as a jump off point and build a system where the players are encouraged to hold off until the critical plot point where they can emulate the Mages of fiction and save the day.</p><p></p><p></p><p>IMHO, of course</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Primitive Screwhead, post: 5760852, member: 20805"] Maybe I used the wrong term there. Spells in fiction are often powerful exertions of arcane/divine over the normal rules of the world. The author times the use of spells appropriate to the plot line and the results are rarely occurring, mythic events. In RPGs, the timing of the use of the spells is handed over to the player. In earlier editions the power was retained and restrictions places on the timing {has to be memorized, uses components, etc..} to try and keep spells in the niche they hold in fiction. As the editions wore on, the power of spells dropped along with the restrictions of use. Now in 4e a decent level Mage can cast Magic Missile all day long... but now the spell is roughly the equivalent of a highly accurate crossbow. No longer can a Mage cast Wish and most of the other spells have been nerfed from their original form. Along the way you get more predictability and less *cool* This is 'as intended', as most players get very upset over a character whose shtick is randomly nerfed and unreliable. Its hard to be heroic if you have a chance of your attack fizzling 'just because'. On the other hand, its hard to be heroic when your attacks deal wimpy damage but can be used every round. The 15 minute day comes from the play style in which Spells were seen as required to survive since they were the most powerful tool the players had. 4E worked to get rid of that by leveling the powers {literally} and for the most part succeeded. However some DMs will still run level+5 encounters instead of realizing that the new math balances at level equivalent very nicely {level -2 or -4 for Solos} That leads to the Nova response from the players.. or maybe it derives from the players going Nova and losing the feel of a challenge. Either way, the answer is to lower the threat of the individual encounter and expand the threat of the adventuring day. Now if we are talking 5e.. perhaps Spells need to shift back into the less often used/more powerful realm. Perhaps using reserve spells as a jump off point and build a system where the players are encouraged to hold off until the critical plot point where they can emulate the Mages of fiction and save the day. IMHO, of course [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
No More 15-Minute Adventuring Day: Campsites
Top