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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sir Brennen" data-source="post: 4066674" data-attributes="member: 553">ltbaxter, I'm not sure what point you were making by explaining how Con Mod works in 3.x, I don't think it'll still be there for 4E. Look at this section:Note they call out the "+ Con Score" and "+ Con Mod" for 1st level HP and Surges respectively. Throughout the rest of the article, it's also specifically mentioned when an ability modifier applies. One would think that if Con Mod also affect HPs, that it would be listed right there.Plus, given the fact that the new starting hit points plus 5 hp per level is already above well above the 3E average (before CON mod), adding in the CON mod would be pushing HP totals even higher than 3E. Now consider the fact that, based on several things we've seen so far, damage ranges seem significantly reduced in 4E. More HP and lower average damage would result in much longer fights, which is not something I think they were going for.Also, since the CON Mod increases the number of times you can use the Healing Surge (which we're assuming gives you some hit points back), having it add to the actual hit points as well would be, in effect, double-counting the increase in hit points.</blockquote>