Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
No More "Humans in Funny Hats": Racial Mechanics Should Determine Racial Cultures
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="ReshiIRE" data-source="post: 8450891" data-attributes="member: 7031231"><p>Fair enough if you're not unhappy. I tend to associate continued arguing and debate as unhappiness and unfortunate; it means a consensis can't be reached and we can't move onto discussing other topics.</p><p></p><p>I think PF2e being a d20 system that its changes are relevant enough to be just discussed here.</p><p></p><p>PF2e did retain an ASI Penalty and Preference system. Most ancestories* get two set +1 modifiers (there are no +1 to ability scores in the system, every time you increase an ability score it goes up by two, increasing the modifier**), a free space to put in any modifier, and a negative. These are called 'Ability Boosts' and 'Ability Flaws'.</p><p></p><p>E.g., Kobolds get a boost to Dexterity, Charisma, and a Free boost, with a Flaw to Constitution.</p><p></p><p>Those Free boosts are restricted to scores that aren't ones that you already get a boost to. So a Kobold can boost their Strength, Constitution, Intelligence or Wisdom - but not their Dexterity or Charisma.</p><p></p><p>All backgrounds then provides two boosts. One boost is a choice between two different scores, and the other is another Free boost.</p><p></p><p>Then, you get four other Free boosts, to put into any score.</p><p></p><p>Then, your choice of class itself gives you a boost, depending on what class you choose. Some have a set boost (Wizard gives you a boost to Intelligence), others allow the choice between two (Fighter allows you to choose Strength or Dexterity). This is the primary ability score of your class.</p><p></p><p>There is a Voluntary Flaws rule. You take two extra Flaws you can put in anywhere, in exchange for another Boost. However, this Boost can't be in something that you got a set flaw in. So, for Kobolds, you could boost the same four I listed above, and can't boost the same two I listed above.</p><p></p><p>There are two other rules: you can't have a score less than -8 (so you can have a -1 Modifier, but not a -2 etc.), and you can't boost a score above 18.</p><p></p><p>Finally, you can roll for stats, but it's an alternative rule.</p><p></p><p>With how the system is set up, anyone can get an 18 or at-least two 16s in the ability scores of their choice, even taking into account their ability flaws, thanks to that Voluntary Flaws rule. So Lizardborn, who have a Flaw to Intelligence, can still be effective Wizards - they just have to take flaws elsewhere.</p><p></p><p>If I understand anything about this conversation, I feel this would easily satisfy everyone here. You get ancestories having different averages and unique statistics (without even taking into account the fact there's so many ancestory feats for every ancestory), and any ancestory can be any class, meaning nobody has to worry about issues of effectiveness.</p><p></p><p>Everybody wins.</p><p></p><p>If you want to check out how this works, use <a href="https://pathbuilder2e.com/" target="_blank">Pathbuilder 2e</a>. Since everything for Pathfinder 2e is on the official SRD in Archives of Nethys, you can see all rules, ancestories, classes, feats etc. (basically everything except most Adventure Path stuff) for yourself. All the Character Creation rules are <a href="https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=66" target="_blank">here.</a></p><p></p><p>* humans get two Free Boosts. Some other ancestories like Orc get a Boost to Strength and then a Free Boost.</p><p></p><p>** this is an oversimplification; ability score increases work very differently in Pathfinder 2e. Every five levels (and it is every five levels, as Pathfinder 2e doesn't do multiclassing like 5e does), you get a further 4 Ability Boosts. If you boost a stat that's 18 or over, it only increases by one - meaning that the modifier only goes up every 10 levels. This also means that if you have a 16 in a score, the max modifier you can get is +5, since if you tried to boost that at Level 20, you'd be wasting the boost. This does mean your Level 15 boosts have to be carefully considered.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ReshiIRE, post: 8450891, member: 7031231"] Fair enough if you're not unhappy. I tend to associate continued arguing and debate as unhappiness and unfortunate; it means a consensis can't be reached and we can't move onto discussing other topics. I think PF2e being a d20 system that its changes are relevant enough to be just discussed here. PF2e did retain an ASI Penalty and Preference system. Most ancestories* get two set +1 modifiers (there are no +1 to ability scores in the system, every time you increase an ability score it goes up by two, increasing the modifier**), a free space to put in any modifier, and a negative. These are called 'Ability Boosts' and 'Ability Flaws'. E.g., Kobolds get a boost to Dexterity, Charisma, and a Free boost, with a Flaw to Constitution. Those Free boosts are restricted to scores that aren't ones that you already get a boost to. So a Kobold can boost their Strength, Constitution, Intelligence or Wisdom - but not their Dexterity or Charisma. All backgrounds then provides two boosts. One boost is a choice between two different scores, and the other is another Free boost. Then, you get four other Free boosts, to put into any score. Then, your choice of class itself gives you a boost, depending on what class you choose. Some have a set boost (Wizard gives you a boost to Intelligence), others allow the choice between two (Fighter allows you to choose Strength or Dexterity). This is the primary ability score of your class. There is a Voluntary Flaws rule. You take two extra Flaws you can put in anywhere, in exchange for another Boost. However, this Boost can't be in something that you got a set flaw in. So, for Kobolds, you could boost the same four I listed above, and can't boost the same two I listed above. There are two other rules: you can't have a score less than -8 (so you can have a -1 Modifier, but not a -2 etc.), and you can't boost a score above 18. Finally, you can roll for stats, but it's an alternative rule. With how the system is set up, anyone can get an 18 or at-least two 16s in the ability scores of their choice, even taking into account their ability flaws, thanks to that Voluntary Flaws rule. So Lizardborn, who have a Flaw to Intelligence, can still be effective Wizards - they just have to take flaws elsewhere. If I understand anything about this conversation, I feel this would easily satisfy everyone here. You get ancestories having different averages and unique statistics (without even taking into account the fact there's so many ancestory feats for every ancestory), and any ancestory can be any class, meaning nobody has to worry about issues of effectiveness. Everybody wins. If you want to check out how this works, use [URL='https://pathbuilder2e.com/']Pathbuilder 2e[/URL]. Since everything for Pathfinder 2e is on the official SRD in Archives of Nethys, you can see all rules, ancestories, classes, feats etc. (basically everything except most Adventure Path stuff) for yourself. All the Character Creation rules are [URL='https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=66']here.[/URL] * humans get two Free Boosts. Some other ancestories like Orc get a Boost to Strength and then a Free Boost. ** this is an oversimplification; ability score increases work very differently in Pathfinder 2e. Every five levels (and it is every five levels, as Pathfinder 2e doesn't do multiclassing like 5e does), you get a further 4 Ability Boosts. If you boost a stat that's 18 or over, it only increases by one - meaning that the modifier only goes up every 10 levels. This also means that if you have a 16 in a score, the max modifier you can get is +5, since if you tried to boost that at Level 20, you'd be wasting the boost. This does mean your Level 15 boosts have to be carefully considered. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
No More "Humans in Funny Hats": Racial Mechanics Should Determine Racial Cultures
Top