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<blockquote data-quote="the Jester" data-source="post: 9195977" data-attributes="member: 1210">So starting at high level does make it harder to run high level pcs. But the premise that nobody wants to play a long campaign is, from my experience, completely wrong. That might not be the most common playstyle, but it is absolutely out there. Such games exist. I play in and run them. I agree that the barrier to entry for high level play is met easiest by starting at low levels and working your way up. And I agree that, in any edition, starting up a 20th level pc from scratch- well, you're not going to play them very well until you get a feel for them over the course of several games. And some kind of system to make an efficient high level pc that was simple enough to pick up and play would be nice- but it shouldn't be the only high level option, or even the default. If high level play is rare, the complexity of it is not the reason; it's the paucity of high level material and support. And the quality of some of the support has been lacking; the 4e epic adventures were pretty terrible, for instance. I think a section giving practical advice to both dms and players for high level play would be great. The fact is, high level play can be, and really should be, different than low level play on a lot of levels, potential complexity being one of them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="the Jester, post: 9195977, member: 1210"] So starting at high level does make it harder to run high level pcs. But the premise that nobody wants to play a long campaign is, from my experience, completely wrong. That might not be the most common playstyle, but it is absolutely out there. Such games exist. I play in and run them. I agree that the barrier to entry for high level play is met easiest by starting at low levels and working your way up. And I agree that, in any edition, starting up a 20th level pc from scratch- well, you're not going to play them very well until you get a feel for them over the course of several games. And some kind of system to make an efficient high level pc that was simple enough to pick up and play would be nice- but it shouldn't be the only high level option, or even the default. If high level play is rare, the complexity of it is not the reason; it's the paucity of high level material and support. And the quality of some of the support has been lacking; the 4e epic adventures were pretty terrible, for instance. I think a section giving practical advice to both dms and players for high level play would be great. The fact is, high level play can be, and really should be, different than low level play on a lot of levels, potential complexity being one of them. [/QUOTE]

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