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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9208583" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Except this isn't an argument people make. I already said that. Several times.Folks always explicitly recognize that some groups, whether by intent or by circumstance, won't necessarily have the problem they have. Thus you are inserting something into this argument that the actual real people aren't saying, and almost never say.Further, look around! It's not one person projecting an issue literally only affecting them. It's hundreds, thousands of people all having similar issues, pointing to specific design elements, and asking for the same overall approaches to fix them.The two arguments are. Not. The. Same. They never have been. One is literally impossible to prove. No amount of context or additional information, short of literally perfectly comprehensive accounting, could change that. The other is perfectly valid on its face, albeit weak in isolation, and becomes dramatically stronger with the context that these are decades-old problems that many actual designers have explicitly recognized.This whataboutism is just a dodge to pretend that there's a "both sides" argument here. There isn't, and there never has been.</blockquote>