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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 9226793" data-attributes="member: 23751">You don't need to move silently to hide.It's baked into the class.That's not growing.  That's instant gratification. If that's what you are after, just slap something on like you do that only kinda sort fits if you squint and call it story with some sort of justification.What I want out of my characters is REAL growth, and options that truly FIT.  I can't get that from 5e unless I engage in the relatively(compared to 3e) few character concepts that 5e contains.8/2=4.  The math is simple. 5+3=8. That math is also simple.  What aren't you understanding?You get to put in a number of skill points into a skill = to level+3.  So a 9th level character can have 12 points in it.  So let's say the fighter has put in 8 points by level 8 and has 4 ranks.  Then at 9th level takes a prestige class where hide is a class skill.  He can then put 4 ranks into hide and will have 8 full ranks.  He's not limited to 7 unless he's purely fighter, and then it's 6, not 7 since 12 points is max and that's 6 ranks.I've already given several non-exhaustive examples.<img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="🤦‍♂️" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f926-2642.png" title="Man facepalming    :man_facepalming:" data-shortname=":man_facepalming:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" />  This is wrong.You are limited to weak feats if there is no gating.  There is gating, including by level. Therefore you are not limited to weak feats unless you plan early.  You can in fact take strong feats that you just happen to qualify for due to level gating.Like the one you told me to use as an example.  You told me to use the equivalent to Greater Weapon Specialization which requires. 1) Weapon focus, 2) Weapon specialization, 3) Greater Weapon Focus, and 4) level 12.  I mean if you didn't want me to use examples like that, why'd you ask me to come up with comparables to it?You will coincidentally qualify for many good feats.  You can be more selective if you prepare, but preparation isn't necessary in the least.Sorry, but it's not for story if you want it in one night.  Those dervishes who are of the class to actually use it had to train far longer.  It not being useful to you doesn't make it for story reasons.  Stories grow over time.  Read some fantasy novels.  The heroes almost never instantly pick up good stuff like that, and when they do magic or something has granted it to them.  They almost never get it by simply looking.Or maybe you're just thinking of those animes where gods reincarnate people with super S abilities to learn stuff in an instant.  Which PCs aren't.You're kidding, right?  The DMG literally says the DM defines the game. Also, and I'm quoting here, "Good players will always recognize that you have the ultimate authority over the game mechanics, even superseding something in the rulebook."DM fiat was part of 3e as it has been in every incarnation of the game.Yes it did.  Rule 0 was RAW.Yeaaaaah, math proves you wrong. It's quite literally impossible for you to be correct.Average is 12.24 no matter how you try to twist it.  You don't get to use poor rolls, because I don't get to use good ones.  The instant you are free to use a 9 or a 5, I get to use 15 and 17.  12 is the only acceptable number for these discussions since stats were rolled and 12 is average for 4d6-L.Math again proves you to be objectively wrong.  You're using 3d6, not 4d6-L which was the default rolling method.No.  That's average.  We don't know what will be rolled or where someone might put the various stats, so you can't assume 9 any more than I can assume 15.  Average has to be used.13 has to be there for you to take ranger.  If we are assuming 9 or even 12, then you can't multiclass with your 5e character.You don't get 3 levels, though.  You only get 1.  You just said this in the post I am quoting here, "I want to grow it in one level. Or at least to effectiveness in 1 level."</blockquote>

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