Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Character Builds & Optimization
No Prebuff - Round 1 - Damage Rankings
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="borg286" data-source="post: 7992143" data-attributes="member: 68679"><p>ForgReaver, would you mind linking each build to the post where it was introduced? Compacting the justification for damage into a single line is insufficient and hard to read.</p><p></p><p>Personally I would have allowed the players 2 rounds and to take the average of both rounds. This would have allowed for a bit of buffing, but both are biased in some way. Personally I found sustained damage more helpful than nova as sustained damage pushed towards having resources later in the day. This is going to be difficult to model as some tables frequently have 1 encounter per day, where nova would be king, while others are closer to dungeon crawl where a nova build will have sacrificed endurance for the nova itself. A way to get a mix would be that the build needs to explain what they do for 2 encounters for 2 rounds and they take the average or median of those 4 rounds. Average would bias towards nova, median would bias towards sustained damage.</p><p></p><p>You made reference to Damage Kings. As author of the DPR King Candidates thread in 4e I've had some experience doing this sort of thing. You said you were not wanting players to simply one up eachother with a tweak that ends up being unplayable, yet the top entries in your list are one trick ponies nonetheless. I found that you allow these tweaks and rank them all the same, then append the user's name on the entry. The competition ended up being healthy for the optimization and community as new exploits were found.</p><p></p><p>Another problem I found with my DPR King Candidates was differing interpretations and cheese. Like you I realized there was no way to have the same rules apply to all builds. I found that labeling the cheese or side of an interpretation was helpful as many builds ended up relying on them. I then added these labels as tags to the build so one could quickly filter out builds that wouldn't work at their table. I often had to make DM-like calls on some of these interpretations. Don't be afraid to do so here.</p><p></p><p>I noticed you didn't account for area damage. According to your rules I could just make the assumption that I'm dealing with 21 HP mooks all in a giant ball and wreck the rankings. You would counter saying that is not an assumption that would be universal, yet I've cited my assumption. The way I tried to account for this was to separate out a build's single target damage from their area damage and annotate the per-target area damage with the area it applies to, then cite the additional single target damage. I was unable to find a satisfactory conversion from area to targets. For ranking it I had to guesstimate.</p><p></p><p>Lastly have you considered having a section dedicated to guiding people through the DPR analysis. Advantage and Critting was one thing that many didn't find intuitive to calculate. I would go so far as normalizing for level by dividing the expected damage by some HP(level). I called this KPR (kills per round) and found it helpful putting builds on the same platform.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="borg286, post: 7992143, member: 68679"] ForgReaver, would you mind linking each build to the post where it was introduced? Compacting the justification for damage into a single line is insufficient and hard to read. Personally I would have allowed the players 2 rounds and to take the average of both rounds. This would have allowed for a bit of buffing, but both are biased in some way. Personally I found sustained damage more helpful than nova as sustained damage pushed towards having resources later in the day. This is going to be difficult to model as some tables frequently have 1 encounter per day, where nova would be king, while others are closer to dungeon crawl where a nova build will have sacrificed endurance for the nova itself. A way to get a mix would be that the build needs to explain what they do for 2 encounters for 2 rounds and they take the average or median of those 4 rounds. Average would bias towards nova, median would bias towards sustained damage. You made reference to Damage Kings. As author of the DPR King Candidates thread in 4e I've had some experience doing this sort of thing. You said you were not wanting players to simply one up eachother with a tweak that ends up being unplayable, yet the top entries in your list are one trick ponies nonetheless. I found that you allow these tweaks and rank them all the same, then append the user's name on the entry. The competition ended up being healthy for the optimization and community as new exploits were found. Another problem I found with my DPR King Candidates was differing interpretations and cheese. Like you I realized there was no way to have the same rules apply to all builds. I found that labeling the cheese or side of an interpretation was helpful as many builds ended up relying on them. I then added these labels as tags to the build so one could quickly filter out builds that wouldn't work at their table. I often had to make DM-like calls on some of these interpretations. Don't be afraid to do so here. I noticed you didn't account for area damage. According to your rules I could just make the assumption that I'm dealing with 21 HP mooks all in a giant ball and wreck the rankings. You would counter saying that is not an assumption that would be universal, yet I've cited my assumption. The way I tried to account for this was to separate out a build's single target damage from their area damage and annotate the per-target area damage with the area it applies to, then cite the additional single target damage. I was unable to find a satisfactory conversion from area to targets. For ranking it I had to guesstimate. Lastly have you considered having a section dedicated to guiding people through the DPR analysis. Advantage and Critting was one thing that many didn't find intuitive to calculate. I would go so far as normalizing for level by dividing the expected damage by some HP(level). I called this KPR (kills per round) and found it helpful putting builds on the same platform. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Character Builds & Optimization
No Prebuff - Round 1 - Damage Rankings
Top