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Message: <blockquote data-quote="theNater" data-source="post: 4327601" data-attributes="member: 62560">Okay, a couple things that I think need to be pointed out.With weapon choice mattering as much as it does in 4th edition, especially for fighters, punishing a character for choosing an uncommon weapon(by not providing that weapon as treasure moderately often) is pretty harsh.  It also cuts down on a character's build options, and the DM should treat it with the same approach as other build-altering rules.As to the wishlist issue, assuming each player's wishlist includes an item for each slot, including two rings, a melee weapon, a ranged weapon, and an implement, that's 12 items on each list.  If the party has five characters, that's a grand total of 60 items.Assuming the characters retire immediately on reaching level 30 and have been receiving the suggested treasure, they will have acquired 116 magic items.Under these assumptions, nearly half of the items acquired will be items not on anyone's wishlist.  Therefore, it is possible to have a bunch of random treasure that characters may or may not be interested in and give them exactly what they want.For those who like to surprise their players, give them a powerful item that's not quite what's on the wishlist when it is the level+4 item, then give them the wishlist item when it's a level+1 item.For those who like to give their players hard choices, provide the guy who wants a Dragonslayer Battleaxe a +5 Dragonslayer Battleaxe(item level 24) and a +6 Viscious Battleaxe(item level 27) at the same time.  Now he's got the item from his wishlist and a tough choice.For those that like to use random treasure tables as an inspiration point for dungeon design, you can use the wishlists the same way.  Once you have a pile of magic item names, why does it matter whether it's the result of a bunch of dice rolling or player choices?  You can even peruse the magic item lists in the PHB for ideas when you know that the characters are due to receive an item of a particular level.  Find the one that sparks your imagination and run with it.Any machine can provide random treasure.  It takes a DM to consistently provide interesting treasure.Oh, and one comment I need to respond to directly:4th edition provides you with all the necessary tools to place treasure.  Just because they're not the tools you're used to doesn't mean they're not there.</blockquote>

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