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Message: <blockquote data-quote="wally" data-source="post: 4332932" data-attributes="member: 3578">If the player had been willing to go that far, then probably yes.  He didn't indicate that he should have to, and I get the feeling from some of the posts in this thread that he shouldn't have to.I understand the point you are making, and some have made it.  Give them an in game reason to search/quest for said item and then achieve the prize.  I don't think that is a new idea, and I would bet that some of the 4e detractors would still agree that it is a plausible path to follow.I think the problem is that the idea that seems to be presented here is that 4e tells you to give the items or something close that is 'usefull' in a treasure that they win sometime in their next battle(s).  That isn't the same thing at all.  It may be my view, but I don't think it comes close at all.-wally</blockquote>