"No rules referencing during play". Reasonable, or authoritarian?

[Simon Atavax]

I'm interested in what you guys think of "no rules referencing during play" as a table rule. It seems that games can often bog down with players looking up rules, and especially spell details (ugh). On the other hand, I'd hate to be unreasonable as a DM, and something about telling players "you may not do this at the table" seems overly authoritarian.

Thoughts?

 

[OchreJelly]

If you're concerned about maintaining pace, I would recommend setting a timer on turns. I haven't done this myself so I don't know what's reasonable. 5 minutes?

Also if initiative isn't readily viewable (like on a white board), let the player next on the initiative know when he's up next so he can start considering his move.

IME it's not rule-lookups that bog down time, but more indecisiveness in the face of changing battlefield conditions.

 

[DEFCON 1]

If it's a game currently being played that has been bogged down by incessant book-thumbing... then instituting the rule to help speed things up is fine.

If however this is a new game, and you have no evidence as of yet that this game is going to be slowed down by people occasionally verifying rules... then the rule is currently unnecessary and unduly authoritarian.

Don't punish people just because of past experience in other situations. Every game is different.

 

[Cadfan]

A well designed character sheet can fix this problem. Most character sheets really suck... let me show you mine. I'm going to upload it as an image to avoid document compatibility problems.

The trick with a character sheet is to include as much information as the player actually needs, but not so much as to overwhelm him. So just include directly into the character sheet the various things that are automatic and always applicable without spelling them out. For example, do you really need to explicitly mention that your attacks are standard actions? Probably not, that's the default. Just mention when they're NOT standard actions, and you'll be fine.

Likewise, after a while your players will grow accustomed to their abilities. When I started out playing this character, I wrote out Combat Challenge so that I'd remember how it all worked. Now I just know how it works, so I've shortened it to just two words: "Combat Challenge."

You get the idea. Most rules references can be avoided by just noting what you're missing, penciling in on your character sheet the answer whenever you DO have to rules reference so that next time you won't, and then updating the sheet as your knowledge grows.

 

[clearstream]

I'm interested in what you guys think of "no rules referencing during play" as a table rule. It seems that games can often bog down with players looking up rules, and especially spell details (ugh). On the other hand, I'd hate to be unreasonable as a DM, and something about telling players "you may not do this at the table" seems overly authoritarian.

Thoughts?

I allow rules referencing when it seems important, but always call time on that if it starts to slow play. I make it clear when I do so that we'll check the rule and apply it correctly in future games. No complaints thus far.

Oh, one other thing I do is that if a mage cannot tell me correctly what her spell does without going to reference, then it fizzles. That spreads the burden nicely, since spells often are special cases.

-vk

 

[Fifth Element]

It seems like a perfectly reasonable table rule to me, but as with all table rules you should discuss it with the players before instituting it. Explain your reasons clearly and why you think it's a good idea. If they're definitely opposed, chuck the idea.

You didn't mention which edition you're using. If it's 3.X I can understand that rules referencing can eat up lots of time. It should be less necessary with 4E or pre-3E editions.

 

[kitsune9]

I'm interested in what you guys think of "no rules referencing during play" as a table rule. It seems that games can often bog down with players looking up rules, and especially spell details (ugh). On the other hand, I'd hate to be unreasonable as a DM, and something about telling players "you may not do this at the table" seems overly authoritarian.

Thoughts?

Unreasonable. Too many things going on that need to be clarified with rules--bad DM calls, needing spell details, how to do a grapple, etc. However, as other posters stated here on the boards, a timer should come in handy for players to figure out what they are going to do and do it. I try to get my players to be able to reference the rule or spell before their next turn comes up so we're ready to roll when they it's their turn.

 

[maddman75]

Easy, play Paranoia. Expressing knowledge of the game rules is treason, citizen.

I think you'd do better trying to cut down on the specific problem areas rather than a blanket ban. Using rules language can at times be clearer and faster than trying to narrate everything, especially with a tactics heavy game like D&D.

If you're having trouble with players having to stop to look up a spell, make it a rule that they must have the book open to the spell they want to cast *before* their turn. Otherwise, just move on to the next person while they look it up. If people want to argue rules during the game, maybe give them each one 'time out' per game, where you'll take up to 5 minutes to look up a rule. Otherwise, you'll make a spot ruling and move on. Most of all, talk to your players and let them know that all the rules-talk is killing your pacing.

 

[Crothian]

It is fine as long as every agrees to it. What we usually do is make a note of things we were unclear of and then consult the rules in between games to make sure we got it right. Also, no one can be killed if there was a mistake with the rules. It can be a little bumpy going through some things that we are iffy on but it keeps the game moving and we get a lot done and have fun doing it. But if all the people at the table didn't agree with this we wouldn't be doing that.

 

[Janx]

I don't allow players to do MM lookups. If they are a summoner, I expect them to have the stats for their applicable creatures already printed out (I have the Monster cards from ToGC for that purpose).

I expect players to be looking up spells for themselves. I ain't got time for that crap.

I set a sense of urgency during encounters to keep things hopping, so combats already go fast.

The only time rules-lookups occur then, is when we're treading on new ground (ex. undead turning) and we need to look it up so we can do it right. A lot of times, that is anticipated, so I include the rules in my adventure (thanks SRD). If it is a rule we're not going to need again (swimming to cross a river that was unplanned), if we can't figure it out quick, I make up a rule (just like oD&D) and we move on. The players know I am making it up, and accept it as I'm trying to move the game forward, not screw them over.

I'd be wary of forbidding rules-lookups. I expect players to help by looking up rules for me. I don't necesarrily like it if they try to rules-lawyer me with it, but that often gets reigned in by ASKING them to lookup the rule, while I take care of another player.