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<blockquote data-quote="HellHound" data-source="post: 279440" data-attributes="member: 3397">It is being argued by a party that spells that have no save DO have a save according to page 176 of the DMG as well as the FAQ and errata.&quot;Q: What's&nbsp; the&nbsp; DC&nbsp; for&nbsp; saving&nbsp; against&nbsp; a&nbsp; spell&nbsp; cast&nbsp; from&nbsp; a&nbsp; wand&nbsp; or&nbsp; scroll? How&nbsp; do&nbsp; you&nbsp; determine&nbsp; the&nbsp; Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma modifier for the character who made the&nbsp; item,&nbsp; or&nbsp; is&nbsp; it&nbsp; the&nbsp; character&nbsp; who&nbsp; uses&nbsp; the&nbsp; item&nbsp; that&nbsp; determines the save DC?&nbsp; &nbsp;A: The ability score of the item maker or item user is irrelevant. The&nbsp; saving&nbsp; throw&nbsp; DC&nbsp; for&nbsp; any&nbsp; spell&nbsp; effect&nbsp; generated&nbsp; from&nbsp; an item&nbsp; is&nbsp; 10&nbsp; +1.5&nbsp; times&nbsp; the&nbsp; spell&nbsp; level,&nbsp; rounded&nbsp; down.&nbsp; (See Saving Throws Against Magic Item Powers on page 176 of the DUNGEON MASTER's Guide.)&quot; and&quot;Q:&nbsp;&nbsp; For magic items that store spells (scrolls, potions, runes, wands), I assume the spell's saving throw DC is determined by the caster's relevant ability score (Wisdom, Intelligence, or Charisma) and feats such as Spell Focus, provided that the person who made the item is also the person using the item.&nbsp; What&nbsp; happens&nbsp; if&nbsp; the&nbsp; item&nbsp; creator&nbsp; is&nbsp; different&nbsp; from&nbsp; item user? Also, is it possible for characters other than the&nbsp; item&nbsp; creator&nbsp; to&nbsp; provide&nbsp; a&nbsp; spell&nbsp; for&nbsp; an&nbsp; item.&nbsp; How&nbsp; is&nbsp; the saving throw DC for the spell determined then?&nbsp; &nbsp;A: The&nbsp; saving throw DC for any&nbsp; spell&nbsp; effect&nbsp; generated&nbsp; from&nbsp; a magic item is equal to 10 + 1.5 times the spell level, rounded down.&nbsp; (See&nbsp; Saving&nbsp; Throws&nbsp; Against&nbsp; Magic&nbsp; Item&nbsp; Powers&nbsp; on page 176 of the DUNGEON MASTER's&nbsp; Guide.)&nbsp; This&nbsp; applies&nbsp; no matter who makes them item and no matter who uses the item.&quot; I'm insisting that this only applies to spells that have a save, and spells like &quot;Enervation&quot; do not have a save and therefore do not suddenly gain one because they are stored in a spell-trigger device.Backup?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="HellHound, post: 279440, member: 3397"] It is being argued by a party that spells that have no save DO have a save according to page 176 of the DMG as well as the FAQ and errata. [i]"Q: What's the DC for saving against a spell cast from a wand or scroll? How do you determine the Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma modifier for the character who made the item, or is it the character who uses the item that determines the save DC? A: The ability score of the item maker or item user is irrelevant. The saving throw DC for any spell effect generated from an item is 10 +1.5 times the spell level, rounded down. (See Saving Throws Against Magic Item Powers on page 176 of the DUNGEON MASTER's Guide.)" [/i] and [i]"Q: For magic items that store spells (scrolls, potions, runes, wands), I assume the spell's saving throw DC is determined by the caster's relevant ability score (Wisdom, Intelligence, or Charisma) and feats such as Spell Focus, provided that the person who made the item is also the person using the item. What happens if the item creator is different from item user? Also, is it possible for characters other than the item creator to provide a spell for an item. How is the saving throw DC for the spell determined then? A: The saving throw DC for any spell effect generated from a magic item is equal to 10 + 1.5 times the spell level, rounded down. (See Saving Throws Against Magic Item Powers on page 176 of the DUNGEON MASTER's Guide.) This applies no matter who makes them item and no matter who uses the item." [/i] I'm insisting that this only applies to spells that have a save, and spells like "Enervation" do not have a save and therefore do not suddenly gain one because they are stored in a spell-trigger device. Backup? [/QUOTE]

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