Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
No Second Edition Love?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="eyebeams" data-source="post: 3328689" data-attributes="member: 9225"><p>I submit that "feel" was mostly the product of good DMs adapting a poor rules set. Combat is one of the central elements of any edition of D&D. 1e's combat rules were utterly borked, to the extent that most games ignored around half of the rules. If you're having fun with 50% of the combat rules altered or ignored, then *you* deserve the credit, not AD&D1e. Even when you talk about a 1e feel, I have the sense you really mean the spirit of adventures and gaming groups from that period, which were quite good. I personally prefer 1e's visual aesthetic and genre assumptions to any other version of the game. 2e made the game cleave to the high fantasy genre D&D helped reignite, but D&D was originally designed with a grubbier swords and sorcery/science fantasy feel.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The funny thing is that these essentials are basically what's in 2e -- and what other posters said made 2e bad for not going far enough. So which is it? Too far, or not far enough?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I very much disagree. Just as the credit for 1e really rests on the shoulders of the people who made it work despite its flaws, the blame for 2e rests on the shoulders of people who didn't cooperate with the idea that optional rules were just that. The Complete series was originally written with that modularity in mind, as this was a principle built right into 2e. Note, for example, that proficiencies in 2e are actually an optional system -- the most complex of three suggestions, once of which is the 1e DMG secondary skills system. Virtually every revision outside of class changes are presented this way. If a DM doesn't have the stones to rule on an option *that is clearly presented as just that*, whose fault is that? Contrast with 1e, which everyone heavily modded but which was designed to be an official tournament system to standardize play.</p><p></p><p>In both 1e and 2e, the community did the opposite of what the books suggested. This was good for 1e and bad for 2e.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="eyebeams, post: 3328689, member: 9225"] I submit that "feel" was mostly the product of good DMs adapting a poor rules set. Combat is one of the central elements of any edition of D&D. 1e's combat rules were utterly borked, to the extent that most games ignored around half of the rules. If you're having fun with 50% of the combat rules altered or ignored, then *you* deserve the credit, not AD&D1e. Even when you talk about a 1e feel, I have the sense you really mean the spirit of adventures and gaming groups from that period, which were quite good. I personally prefer 1e's visual aesthetic and genre assumptions to any other version of the game. 2e made the game cleave to the high fantasy genre D&D helped reignite, but D&D was originally designed with a grubbier swords and sorcery/science fantasy feel. The funny thing is that these essentials are basically what's in 2e -- and what other posters said made 2e bad for not going far enough. So which is it? Too far, or not far enough? I very much disagree. Just as the credit for 1e really rests on the shoulders of the people who made it work despite its flaws, the blame for 2e rests on the shoulders of people who didn't cooperate with the idea that optional rules were just that. The Complete series was originally written with that modularity in mind, as this was a principle built right into 2e. Note, for example, that proficiencies in 2e are actually an optional system -- the most complex of three suggestions, once of which is the 1e DMG secondary skills system. Virtually every revision outside of class changes are presented this way. If a DM doesn't have the stones to rule on an option *that is clearly presented as just that*, whose fault is that? Contrast with 1e, which everyone heavily modded but which was designed to be an official tournament system to standardize play. In both 1e and 2e, the community did the opposite of what the books suggested. This was good for 1e and bad for 2e. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
No Second Edition Love?
Top