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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Desdichado" data-source="post: 3328756" data-attributes="member: 2205">You're guilty of several logical fallacies all at the same time: 1) speaking for all groups ever when in fact you have no knowledge of what most other groups did or didn't do with their games which is similar to 2) using anecdotal evidence from your own group and assuming that conditions were exactly the same in most other groups, 3) dramatic oversimplification of the combat rules in an attempt to "prove" that they were simply which leads to, 4) attacking a strawman argument that bears little to no resemblance to what eyebeams is actually claiming, and finally 4) not actually a logical fallacy, but it is a fallacy: Arneson had nothing to do with the design of AD&D--it was a purposeful attempt by Gygax to design an alternate version of D&D that cut him out of the loop.The misconception on the part of you is that most players (and people on these sites) didn't play AD&D when it was current and therefore have bizarre illusions about the game.  The fact of the matter is, most of us did play them and know exactly how complex the game is or isn't.For what it's worth, I'd also argue that 1e isn't particularly complex---it is, however, inconsistent, extremely poorly organized and bizarre as a system.  Which can have all of the same drawbacks as complexity, without the advantages.Back to the oversimplification and strawman.  That description works just as well for 3e as it does for 1e, making it meaningless as a point of comparison.And yet again.  That's the sign of a good 3e DM too.  The difference being that without having to consult tables, it's actually easier to accomplish in 3e than it was in 1e.  Although I do concede that in 3e, we do consult the rulebooks at least a couple times a session.  Usually to consult spell effects for spells that we don't use frequently enough to remember off the top of our heads, though--so we'd do the same thing in 1e, I'd imagine.</blockquote>

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