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<blockquote data-quote="tx7321" data-source="post: 3328768" data-attributes="member: 43146">JDawg: &quot;You're guilty of several logical fallacies all at the same time: &quot;&nbsp; Jdawg, my friend, thats the most any of us can do in life, esp. when there are no records of this sort of thing. Q: &quot;Arneson had nothing to do with the design of AD&amp;D--&quot;, you must have never heard of OD&amp;D then, the game AD&amp;D is based on.&nbsp; Yes, I'm afraid Arney has alot to do with AD&amp;D.&nbsp;&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Q: &quot;dramatic oversimplification of the combat rules in an attempt to &quot;prove&quot; that they were simply which leads to, &quot;&nbsp; The core rules every DM I've sat for playing 1E are basically that. And the games they run feel identical in that way.&nbsp; IF they are doing surprise correctly, if they are using WSF or armor tables, etc. does not effect the &quot;1E FEEL&quot;.&nbsp; The core rules are simple, the other rules (surprise etc. etc. etc.) not only are they complex, there next to impossible to figure out.&nbsp; But who cares if they don't change the game that much.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;The majority of rules of 1E are not shared by the players (who don't read the DMG). You must mean the DM who adjudicates them. Anyhow, like I said, the core system everyone uses is simple (role d6 per side, high role goes first, role D20, check tables).Sure, all FRPGs are playing make believe, but some make this easier then others.&nbsp;&nbsp; 1E required zero understanding of the rules.&nbsp; &quot;Hey Joe, sit down.&nbsp; You want to play a dwarf fighter cause you thought Balin was cool.&nbsp; Here&quot;.&nbsp; You have 8 HPs and a 4 armor class (thats what your chain and shield give you).&nbsp; You use a long sword and axe.&nbsp; And you can see in the dark a good distance, you know these languages,&nbsp; oh and your good underground at detecting unsafe passages.&nbsp; OK so lets play&quot;.&nbsp;&nbsp; Thats the ideal player&nbsp; Someone who doesn't know the rules, and at most has read his race and character descriptions.&nbsp;&nbsp; (who you can have playing in your group in 5 minutes after sitting down for the first time).In 3E the player must have a good understanding of all the &quot;buttons&quot; that go to make up his character, how to write them down in a logical fashion, and constantly check them in game to see what he can do (tumble or dodge..) in 1E the less you know about the &quot;buttons&quot; the better.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="tx7321, post: 3328768, member: 43146"] JDawg: "You're guilty of several logical fallacies all at the same time: " Jdawg, my friend, thats the most any of us can do in life, esp. when there are no records of this sort of thing. Q: "Arneson had nothing to do with the design of AD&D--", you must have never heard of OD&D then, the game AD&D is based on. Yes, I'm afraid Arney has alot to do with AD&D. ;) Q: "dramatic oversimplification of the combat rules in an attempt to "prove" that they were simply which leads to, " The core rules every DM I've sat for playing 1E are basically that. And the games they run feel identical in that way. IF they are doing surprise correctly, if they are using WSF or armor tables, etc. does not effect the "1E FEEL". The core rules are simple, the other rules (surprise etc. etc. etc.) not only are they complex, there next to impossible to figure out. But who cares if they don't change the game that much. The majority of rules of 1E are not shared by the players (who don't read the DMG). You must mean the DM who adjudicates them. Anyhow, like I said, the core system everyone uses is simple (role d6 per side, high role goes first, role D20, check tables). Sure, all FRPGs are playing make believe, but some make this easier then others. 1E required zero understanding of the rules. "Hey Joe, sit down. You want to play a dwarf fighter cause you thought Balin was cool. Here". You have 8 HPs and a 4 armor class (thats what your chain and shield give you). You use a long sword and axe. And you can see in the dark a good distance, you know these languages, oh and your good underground at detecting unsafe passages. OK so lets play". Thats the ideal player Someone who doesn't know the rules, and at most has read his race and character descriptions. (who you can have playing in your group in 5 minutes after sitting down for the first time).In 3E the player must have a good understanding of all the "buttons" that go to make up his character, how to write them down in a logical fashion, and constantly check them in game to see what he can do (tumble or dodge..) in 1E the less you know about the "buttons" the better. ;) [/QUOTE]

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