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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ourph" data-source="post: 3339956" data-attributes="member: 20239">I guess I just don't see that as stuff that the players need to have access to before they can play.  It puts a little more weight on the shoulders of the DM to have him ask the players for their encumbrance numbers and then tell them what their movement rate is, but the 1e rules seem to assume that most players will be newbs and the DM is there to handle the rules for them.  The same is true for the monk limitations.  The player tells the DM what he'd like to do, the DM uses the rules in the DMG to adjudicate whether he can actually do it.  The player then learns through experience what is and is not possible rather than reading it in a rulebook.The other stuff (saving throw tables, initiative rules, training) all seems like it is clearly the province of the DM alone.  Including a space for saving throws in the character sheet may have been a convenience, but it wasn't necessary (the DM screen had them printed on it as well, along with the attack matrices).  Initiative occurs as the DM describes it, the players just need to be told what dice to roll and when their turn comes up.  The training rules are part of the way a DM controls player wealth and compels NPC/world interactions.  That seems to me like something that the players definitely don't need to know in advance.I won't go so far as to argue that it's better for players to remain in the dark about those things, but I can't see any of them as necessary for a player to be able to run his character effectively as long as we assume a competent DM who is filling the role the 1e rules expect him to fill (i.e. - world/adventure builder AND rules arbiter/referee).</blockquote>

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