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Message: <blockquote data-quote="charlesatan" data-source="post: 3449460" data-attributes="member: 20870">No, you simply asked for spells that could damage a golem. If you wanted spells that could deal significant damage to a golem, that's another matter. And Acid Fog for me has always been a tactical placement spell rather than a damaging one.If you wanted to argue the merits of the ability to ignore SR, then simply say so. Don't go around the argument that  "it's a touch attack that almost hits and can also do double damage." Because every ray damaging spell falls under that.And I wouldn't say the Orb spells are considerably better than Polar Ray. At high levels, I'd actually be using Polar Ray (because of Split Ray metamagic) more often than the Orb spells unless I have good reason to do so. And yes, a lot of spells are pretty much like that. I mean Delayed Blast Fireball is really just an upgrade of Fireball. The delayed part is situationally useful but I honestly don't think the time it's used with its delayed effect outnumbers the times it's used as a glorified fireball.In contrast to the Orb spells which is an all or nothing deal if they miss the attack roll?What point of attack roll do you not get? Even Melf's and Scorching Ray isn't a sure thing -- they get attack rolls. If I had a high BAB and a high Dex it might be an auto-hit but when you're a mage, you have crappy BAB. And unless I cast it in the first round of combat, pseudo-ray spells get messier: cover, penalties for allies in melee, etc. reduce my chances unless I have a big investure in feats (Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, etc.). There are even situations when the targets simply have a high touch AC (ring of protection, insight bonuses, luck bonuses, etc.). Your AC is your save.I thought it was an anti-magic field in general rather than the specific spell.I think this is a matter of expectation. Again, it does nullify spellcasters when they're in the field. If they're out, everything is free game (everything from casting Cometfall or some other "indirect" way of harming the target).I think we've shown that it's not. Is it a good spell? Arguably so. Broken? Some of us believe it is, some not. However I'd like to point out that does that do usually point flavor and thematics as a reason (the conjuration vs evocation). I also think part of it stems from the fact that it breaks certain sacred cows (i.e. golems being totally invulnerable to magic).Mechanically, here's my argument. If we ignore the SR component, would it be a broken spell? If your answer is no, then we can move on to what I think is the heart of the argument: "Are the Orb spells balanced/broken because they go through SR?" I feel that's a better argument rather than me having to go through the dynamics explaining ray spells, metamagic feats, etc.If your problem is the fact that it ignores SR, just say so. If it's about dealing about a crapload of damage because of metamagic feats, a lot of spells falls under that complaint. If it's about the fact that it has no saving throw for half damage, again, a lot of spells has that. If it's about the fact that it's resolves as a ranged touch attack, again, see ray spells.</blockquote>

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