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Message: <blockquote data-quote="charlesatan" data-source="post: 3449668" data-attributes="member: 20870">If the auto-kill argument is something we can drop, then I'm glad. It's one less thing to debate about. Which was my point with my previous posts.Second, I don't want to get into an argument which is overall better: a ranged touch attack or a saving throw against a spell. The former is an all-or-nothing gambit: if it hits, you're dealt full damage. If it doesn't, nothing. A saving throw on the other hand is the reverse: at worse, it's half damage. At best, it's full damage. But never under any circumstances is a ranged touch attack an auto-hit. At best there's a 5% chance for failure. But I don't think that will always be the case (certainly there will be chances when that will be the case but there will also be scenarios when you will only have 5% chance to hit). For me the ranged touch attack vs saving throw is a stylistic choice. Depending on the opponent the former might be a better choice than the latter but it is far from "all the time the former trumps the latter".Third, they're both energy based. Okay. For me Abjuration, Conjuration, and Evocation had energy subtypes. Evocation just tends to have more of them.Fourth, I'm not denying that the Orb spells aren't great single target spells. They are. But so what? I don't think single target spells are the forte of Evocation. It's spells that damage multiple targets. And the Orbs don't occupy that particular niche. It's giving the chance to do 10d6 damage at multiple targets for 15d6 at just one.Fifth, what I think is the heart of the argument is that the Orb spells ignores SR. Evocation spells simply don't have such a counterpart. That I think is what we should be discussing. Not the other "red herrings". And even assuming the Orbs are imbalanced, it's not dethroning the school of Evocation. I still can't hit multiple targets with the Orb spells at the same damage output. Evocation can.</blockquote>

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