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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Rystil Arden" data-source="post: 3452719" data-attributes="member: 29014">We can say that any other feats will be taken by the other and thus cancel each other out (although I assumed both had all the metamagic they needed, so at least Energy Sub, Empower, Maximize, Quicken, Twin, and Energy Admixture (the last useful against Energy Resistance, since it doesn't shoot twice like Twin) .  With a bigger slew of obscure feats, both numbers will be higher, but it won't matter--we're talking about the Orbs here versus Evocation spells.  The more caveats and provisos added on top as we pile on extra abilities on either side, the less and less clear it is what effect is caused by the Orbs.  If it isn't clear to you the effect of the Orbs now, it should be less clear later, particularly with more and more other components added.  I, for one, care far less about the more-impressive numbers I just put out for you because it has other factors involved beyond just the Orbs.  I will care less and less as more changes to the two characters are incorporated.  I could do it, but when the Orb specialist comes out with an even larger advantage at the end, you're not going to budge, just like now, so I'm not going to waste my time.  You pretty clearly won't be convinced by math, no matter what.</blockquote>