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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 3453849" data-attributes="member: 2011">Buff spells get cast in the game and are an integral part of DND combat, regardless of denials. Stat boost items are an integral part of DND, regardless of denials.Orbs have a very minor to hit roll, no save for half damage, no SR, and the potential for double damage (and the 4th level version has a save for some other game affect which very few single target Evocation spells have). That means that it is energy damage magic practically without a game mechanic to determine if it works or not (the one it has rarely prevents it from not occurring).I notice that the pro-Orb side is blowing off the fact that the average touch AC in the Monster Manual is 10.5 and 93% of creatures in it have a touch AC of 14 or less. Even without any additional magic whatsoever, a 10th level  arcane caster could still hit 95% against an average touch AC from the MM. Add in the fact that people do play their PCs with buff spells, feats, special abilities, and items and the math becomes overwhelming.Without any magic spells or items whatsoever, I can easily create an arcane caster who specializes in Orb spells who hits an average touch AC creature in the MM (we'll make it AC 11) 95% of the time by 8th level:Dex 14 Halfling which makes it Dex 1601 70% Point Blank Shot02 75%03 75% Precise Shot04 80%05 80%06 90% Weapon Focus07 90%08 95%And really for such a specialist, only Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot is really needed for the game (Precise Shot is needed in order to help pick off creatures already in melee combat).But, the pro-Orb side is really missing the point of the math. It does not matter if it is 95% or 70% or whatever for a given arcane caster. Compared to other first and fourth level single target spells with a saving throw, Orbs affect their targets a higher percentage of the time and because they do such nice damage, they often force their opponents to waste time fleeing or healing (at least in our campaigns, an opponent does not always fight to the death when he is 50% or more damaged in round one).And against Arcane casters, the 4th level Orb spell can be practically a death sentence with few defenses for a same level enemy arcane caster in round one . D6 per level is a high percentage of the hit points of most arcane casters (unless of course, pro-Orb people are now going to argue that arcane casters walk around with Con boost items, but not Dex boost items <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /> ).</blockquote>

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