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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Rystil Arden" data-source="post: 3458309" data-attributes="member: 29014">...Umm...dude, they were important to Evan's build too.  Otherwise his damage would be down in the toilet.  In fact, I can tell you exactly how much he would do without those--Doing the calculations, the Level 20 (not 15 like the Conjurer) Evoker does 12 Damage if he has no metamagic available. Really?  I actually thought Twin was, but looks like your right.  It is fairly basic though, and they're in Complete Arcane (the same book as Orbs, so we know that we're using that one)--I've never seen anyone call Twin Spell "Power Creep".  But I'm happy to reduce it even further--I'm that confident that the Orbs will still be devastating if you just give them enough metamagic to go to roughly your highest level.  So if you reduce this to just Quicken and Maximise (the barebones mind--this means that Connie has avoided taking 8 possible feats and just taken nothing instead; all she has going for her in the world are Maximise and Quicken, plus the Orbs spells), which are both in the PH, two Connie level 15 can still kill the Ancient Red Dragon (CR = her level + 8), but she becomes unable to kill the Wyrm, barely by the skin of its wyrmy teeth (and if it has no energy resistance or less than 30, it's gone).</blockquote>