Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="evilbob" data-source="post: 3458952" data-attributes="member: 9789">Rystil:  Please forgive me for not reading the last ten pages' worth of argument, <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> but I wanted to ask a quick question about your general math.  You're saying that a 15th level caster with the Maximize and Quicken Spell feats could do how much damage to a single target in one round?  Noting that you can't use both feats on a single 4th level spell, I figure you are calculating 90 damage from the maximized, and then avg. 45 from the quickened spell - assuming you get no energy resistance.  That's an avg. of 135, x 2 spell casters = 270.  In two rounds, assuming both survived (and both had at least 2 8th level spells), you're hitting 540 avg damage (min 420, max 720).  That doesn't really seem high enough to kill a CR 24 red dragon with his 610 HP (on average), although I would say that's probably going to win against a CR 21 with 449 HP.  This is, of course, ignoring any existing energy resistance and the dragon's ultimate response, whatever that may be.  (Granting that the dragon is a 17th caster-level sorcerer, I'd imagine that spell immunity - another 4th level spell - or globe of invulnerability would be high priorities.  Well, or teleport or wish or something.)Adding Twin Spell or Energy Admixture to the mix (both add 4 levels to a spell) doesn't change anything, because you cannot quicken or maximize a twinned or "admixtured" spell (and you would probably rather maximize than twin or admixture, since you're guarenteed max damage, and the other two options would give you average damage twice).  Not to mention that two twinned or admixtured 4th level spells and two quickened 4th level spells means you'd need four 8th level spell slots - impossible for 15th level specialist wizards without some kind of ultra-specialization or extra feats (or a "brokenly" high Int bonus).Assuming the high-CR dragon did nothing intelligent against the spellcasters (like cast a spell), nor had access to any items that would help, do you mind to do the math for me on what I may have missed that bumps the average damage of those orb spells up again?Edit:  Actually, do you also mind to do the math on why the dragon couldn't kill both casters in one round?  A 15th level caster with a 12 Con will have an average of 54 HP.  I'm guessing that they would not have evasion, and also could not, on average, make a DC 38 reflex save, meaning the dragon's breath attack would do an average of 110 points of damage to them.  Assuming 30 points of energy resistance, that's still more than enough to kill both (on average).</blockquote>

Verification