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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
No spell resistance vs. Orb spells? Why?
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<blockquote data-quote="Hypersmurf" data-source="post: 3465366" data-attributes="member: 1656"><p>Well, the description of the Conjuration school states:</p><p><em>Each conjuration spell belongs to one of five subschools. Conjurations bring manifestations of objects, creatures, or some form of energy to you (the summoning subschool), actually transport creatures from another plane of existence to your plane (calling), heal (healing), transport creatures or objects over great distances (teleportation), or <strong>create objects or effects on the spot (creation).</strong></em></p><p></p><p>If we are to judge intent, let's look at the 32 creation spells in the PHB.</p><p></p><p>Three of them create things which might be considered creatures:</p><p><em>Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound</em></p><p><em>Phantom Steed</em></p><p><em>Shambler</em></p><p></p><p>(Phantom Steed is explicitly a creature, and Shambling Mounds I've got no problem with; the Hound is debatable, but let's call it a creature.)</p><p></p><p>Eleven I'll grant the status of objects:</p><p><em>Create Food and Water</em></p><p><em>Create Water</em></p><p><em>Fire Seeds</em></p><p><em>Heroes' Feast</em></p><p><em>Leomund's Secure Shelter</em></p><p><em>Major Creation</em></p><p><em>Minor Creation</em></p><p><em>Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion</em></p><p><em>Wall of Iron</em></p><p><em>Wall of Stone</em></p><p><em>Wall of Thorns</em></p><p><em>Web</em></p><p></p><p>(Is 'water' an object? Does changing acorns into bombs count as creating an object? Does Web have a hardness or hit points?)</p><p></p><p>Which leaves 18 creation spells that create effects that are neither creatures nor objects:</p><p><em>Acid Arrow</em></p><p><em>Acid Fog</em></p><p><em>Acid Splash </em></p><p><em>Evard's Black Tentacles</em></p><p><em>Cloudkill</em></p><p><em>Fog Cloud</em></p><p><em>Gate</em></p><p><em>Glitterdust</em></p><p><em>Grease</em></p><p><em>Incendiary Cloud</em></p><p><em>Mage Armor</em></p><p><em>Obscuring Mist</em></p><p><em>Phase Door</em></p><p><em>Sepia Snake Sigil</em></p><p><em>Sleet Storm</em></p><p><em>Solid Fog</em></p><p><em>Stinking Cloud</em></p><p><em>Unseen Servant</em></p><p></p><p>So when we look at the subschool description:</p><p><em>A creation spell manipulates matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates...</em></p><p></p><p>... what is the more reasonable deduction? That over half - the majority! - of the creation spells in the PHB are in the wrong subschool? Or that the word "creature" was erroneously substituted in the subschool description for the earlier-stated "effect" from the school description?</p><p></p><p>Where should those 18 spells from the PHB be placed, if we decide that if it's not an object or a creature, it's not Creation?</p><p></p><p>-Hyp.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hypersmurf, post: 3465366, member: 1656"] Well, the description of the Conjuration school states: [i]Each conjuration spell belongs to one of five subschools. Conjurations bring manifestations of objects, creatures, or some form of energy to you (the summoning subschool), actually transport creatures from another plane of existence to your plane (calling), heal (healing), transport creatures or objects over great distances (teleportation), or [b]create objects or effects on the spot (creation).[/b][/i] If we are to judge intent, let's look at the 32 creation spells in the PHB. Three of them create things which might be considered creatures: [i]Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound Phantom Steed Shambler[/i] (Phantom Steed is explicitly a creature, and Shambling Mounds I've got no problem with; the Hound is debatable, but let's call it a creature.) Eleven I'll grant the status of objects: [i]Create Food and Water Create Water Fire Seeds Heroes' Feast Leomund's Secure Shelter Major Creation Minor Creation Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion Wall of Iron Wall of Stone Wall of Thorns Web[/i] (Is 'water' an object? Does changing acorns into bombs count as creating an object? Does Web have a hardness or hit points?) Which leaves 18 creation spells that create effects that are neither creatures nor objects: [i]Acid Arrow Acid Fog Acid Splash Evard's Black Tentacles Cloudkill Fog Cloud Gate Glitterdust Grease Incendiary Cloud Mage Armor Obscuring Mist Phase Door Sepia Snake Sigil Sleet Storm Solid Fog Stinking Cloud Unseen Servant[/i] So when we look at the subschool description: [i]A creation spell manipulates matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates...[/i] ... what is the more reasonable deduction? That over half - the majority! - of the creation spells in the PHB are in the wrong subschool? Or that the word "creature" was erroneously substituted in the subschool description for the earlier-stated "effect" from the school description? Where should those 18 spells from the PHB be placed, if we decide that if it's not an object or a creature, it's not Creation? -Hyp. [/QUOTE]
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