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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hypersmurf" data-source="post: 3467717" data-attributes="member: 1656">You started it, by saying that the orb spells are in the wrong school.  The orb spells are in the Conjuration school and the Creation subschool; either your argument is that someone made a typo, or that the spells are counter to the intent of the subschool, right?You miss my point.You're saying "The instantaneous creation rule doesn't apply, because the orb is not a creature or an object."I'm saying "The entire creation subschool, by that logic, is limited to creatures and objects, because the subschool description says so."A creation spell manipulates matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates...If we accept that the Creation subschool description is accurate in its use of the phrase 'object or creature', then any spell which does not manipulate matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates is not a Creation spell.  And that's over half of the spells labelled 'Creation' in the PHB.So my proposal is that where the Creation subschool says 'object or creature', they meant 'object or effect', just like the school description says.Which means that If the spell has a duration other than instantaneous, magic holds the creation together, and when the spell ends, the conjured creature or object vanishes without a trace. If the spell has an instantaneous duration, the created object or creature is merely assembled through magic.would instead be read asIf the spell has a duration other than instantaneous, magic holds the creation together, and when the spell ends, the conjured effect or object vanishes without a trace. If the spell has an instantaneous duration, the created object or effect is merely assembled through magic.If we don't change the subschool description, and instead enforce the 'object or creature' wording as it appears, it invalidates over half the spells in the subschool in the PHB, because those spells do not manipulate matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates.-Hyp.</blockquote>

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