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Message: <blockquote data-quote="two" data-source="post: 3483319" data-attributes="member: 9002">Orbs Best when you need it!One thing that has been lost in all this interesting (for the most part) discussion is the fact that the orb spells are strongest, and most useful, WHEN THE SITUATION IS MOST DIRE.Using the Orb spells vs. 1-4 opponents, particularly at mid or high levels (10+), is very, very strong.  If there are 4 opponents, you can likely take one out immediately with a meta-magicked Orb (if 4 make a reasonable challenge, they can't all have really high HP).  Taking out 1/4 of the opponents in one round is highly effective.With 3, 2, or 1 opponent it is even more clear.In mixed battles, with 10 mooks, 2 sub-monsters, an 1 major monster, the orb blaster should be able to take out the sub-monster in one round, and the major monster in 2 rounds.  Just ignore the mooks for a while.The ONLY time the orb blaster is unhappy is when faced by 5+ similarly powered monsters.  Taking out one a round isn't that powerful.  On the other hand, an attack by 10 cr-appropriate monsters isn't a big deal.  Sure, fireball is effective in this case, but so are a lot of other spells (acid fog, etc.).  When you increase the numbers to 15 or 20, the power of each individual mook decreases. Yeah, the blaster mage is great at these sorts of things.  But the party, as a whole, is likely not in much danger, and the orb slinger has a lot of other useful options (cloud spells, etc.).When the orb master really shines is, well, WHEN YOU NEED HIM MOST.Going up against some nasty high HP monster with magical defenses... or a high AC fighter type with great saves... etc.I can think of a thousand monsters that make fireballers unhappy (high reflex save, mid-or-high SR, elemental immunities).I can only think of a few SITUATIONAL setups where the Orb guy is unhappy.  (the only monster that the orb guy hates is incorporeal undead types with high touch ac.)At the end of the day, when the going gets tough, the Orb blaster has all his best features highlighted:  lots of no save no sr damage to a single target with a near auto-hit.At the end of the day, when the going gets tough, the evoker has all his weakest features highlighted:  reflex save and SR (and elemental immunity).</blockquote>

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