No Swordsman Skill For Me (Bad Wick, Bad)

[John Wick]

I'm playing in a weekly round-robin Saturday game. That is, every week it's a different GM and a different game.

One of our re-occuring games is a d20 Wheel of Time game. While Mr. Jordon's opus doesn't exactly ring my bell, I'm having a dandy ol' time with our most excellent GM.

But there's a problem, see.

I'm playing a noble character (I've already been told I should switch our for the Star Wars Noble who is vastly superior in all ways, shapes and means). At the end of the last game session, the GM asked, "Does anybody want to do anything before we quit?"

Well, yes I did. My noble character - a noblewoman, by the way - donned her slumming clothes, went down to the bad part of town and walked up to the table of one of the most notorious swordsmen in the world. She threw down a fencing sword and said, "Teach me."

Here's the problem.

As far as I can see (and I may have missed something; that's the point of all this), in the scope of the d20 system, there's no way for me to pick up a "Fencing Skill." I have to pick up a whole level of Armsman or Fighter or something like that. But I don't want that. I want to learn how to fight with a sword. I don't want the armor skills and Feats or how to fight with a polearm or axe or anything like that. Just swordsman.

Am I missing something with the d20 system? Is there any way for me to do this without going off my "noble track?"

Anybody help me? Anybody at all?

Thanks in advance,
John

---
The Wick is Dead!
John's doing just fine.

 

[HellHound]

Feat: Martial Weapon Proficiency.

 

[John Wick]

Hello, and thanks for the answer.

Without a PG in front of me, just what does the Martial Weapon Proficiency Feat do? I'm assuming it allows me to use a Martial Weapon (fencing sword) outside my normal weapon proficiencies. Does it give me any kind of bonus with that weapon? Can I take it multiple times to get multiple bonuses on my base attack with that weapon?

I'd like my noble character to get better at this one thing rather than chase levels in a class that isn't my "native" class. That's why I ask about taking the Feat more than once.

Thanks again for the reply.

 

[jaults]

    If you're non-proficient with a weapon, you have a -4 to hit penalty. You can't take a Weapon Proficiency more than once with a given weapon. Most weapon-oriented feats (like Weapon Focus) require you to be proficient with the weapon in question.
    However, as a WoT Noble, your character is already proficient in all simple and martial weapons. So consider picking up Weapon Finesse: Rapier (allows you to use your Dex rather than Str when calculating to hit bonus) or Weapon Focus: Rapier (+1 to hit). Also think about feats like Dodge, Mobility and Spring Attack, which all pretty accurately model the fencing style.
    Hope this helps...

    Jason

 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The martail weapon proficiency allows you to use a martial weapon without penanlty, taking it multiple times allows for multiple weapons. Weapon focus will give you a plus 1 to attack with a specific weapon. If you want better damage you can take power attack. To simulate the fencing feal weapon finese allows you to attack with your dex modifier instead of strength and weapon expertise allows you to lower your attack bonus to add to your armor class.

Hope that helps.

 

[mattcolville]

Someone with Moderator privileges should move this to Rules, I think.

The problem you're having, John, doesn't arise from WoT, but rather D&D.

What is fencing? Well, in the modern world, fencing is a sport. You use an épeé.

Sports and combat are different things. There aren't any rules in D&D for "I'm good at this sport or game" as far as I know, though I bet if I looked up "gaming" and figured out how the skills deal with that, I'd be able to extrapolate to sports.

But I bet you're not talking about the modern sport of fencing. I bet your talking about the traditional dueling activity that used rapiers, usually.

Rapiers are normal martial weapons. If your character class doesn't grant you access to martial weapons, you can always take the Martial Weapon Proficiency Feat, choose Rapier, and be proficient with a rapier.

Furthermore, you can take the feat Weapon Finesse for your rapier, and use your Dex bonus instead of your Strength bonus when attacking.

So what does Fencing mean to you? Does it mean "being really good in combat with a rapier?" If so then you need at least the MWP feat, if not also the WF feat. Even if that's what it means to you, you're probably never going to be better at it than someone who trains his whole life to use weapons (a fighter.)

D&D used to break weapon proficiencies out into each individual weapon, then it went to close groups, and now we've got broad categories that make me a lot happier.

Fencing the sport is a different issue. I'd probably rule it was a skill, and make you spend points on Craft (Fencing) or Profession (fencing) or something like that.

 

[Jeph]

Fencing the sport is a different issue. I'd probably rule it was a skill, and make you spend points on Craft (Fencing) or Profession (fencing) or something like that.

Um . . . wouldn't craft (fencing) be making fences?

If I were the GM, I'd allow you to take Perform (fencing) and Profession (fencing), maybe using your Dex modifier instead of Cha (for perform) and Wis (for Profession).

 

[Wolfx]

If you really want to have a character just learn to fight and not have to take on additional classes the Quintessential Fighter from Mongoose Publishing is the way to go.

In it is a section on Fighting schools. Each school is 5 non-class levels that give different bonuses for different situations. The only requirements are a specific weapon for each school, training time to learn and a gp cost.

 

[digitaldark]

So consider picking up Weapon Finesse: Rapier (allows you to use your Dex rather than Str when calculating to hit bonus) or Weapon Focus: Rapier (+1 to hit). Also think about feats like Dodge, Mobility and Spring Attack, which all pretty accurately model the fencing style.
    Hope this helps...

    Jason

Not quite sure about rapiers in WoT...but in DnD, Rapiers already allow the use of Weapon Finesse with them without actually needing the feat..

 

[bwgwl]

Not quite sure about rapiers in WoT...but in DnD, Rapiers already allow the use of Weapon Finesse with them without actually needing the feat..

i don't think that's the case. the exception with the rapier is that you can use Weapon Finesse with it even though it is a Medium-size weapon (normally you can only finesse a weapon smaller than your own size).

the description of the rapier in the PHB says: "You can use the Weapon Finesse feat (see page 86) to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a rapier."

you can use the feat if you have it. it doesn't say you get it automatically.

the Weapon Finesse description says: "Choose one light weapon. Alternatively, you can choose a rapier..."

if everyone could automatically finesse a rapier, the feat wouldn't specifically mention choosing it.

just thought i'd clear things up.