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Nobles And Diplomats in 4e?
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<blockquote data-quote="FourthBear" data-source="post: 3989895" data-attributes="member: 55846"><p>To start, I'll just say that I do think the 3e fighter *does* have significantly more diverse options than the 1e and 2e fighter. It's just that's not saying much when comparing to the magic wielding classes.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree that in any system that allow a significant amount of character customization, this issue of specialization is going to be an issue. From comments made on blogs, I suspect that they are dealing with this in a couple of ways:</p><p></p><p>1) Character ability segregation. Characters will have class abilities that will grant the central, basic abilities that the designers feel define the classes' role. These abilities will automatically level up in a way that should give the character the ability to compete in that role adequately. The character will then have another pool of abilities that can be used to customize the character (feats or similar) that can be used to enhance their core abilties or expand into other areas.</p><p></p><p>2) The customization abilities will be made significant, but not terribly strong. Probably less than the "better" feats in 3e. The difference between a character who has taken all customization in their class central concepts will be significantly better than the one that used customization to broaden the character's abilties, but not overwhelmingly so. To avoid problems at higher levels, I suspect that customization will be designed to give more options, but not to stack significantly with previous customization choices.</p><p></p><p>For a specific, hypothetical example: All Warlocks have an Eldritch Blast. The attack bonus and damage on this blast increase for every Warlock level in a way that allows every Warlock to serve as a ranged striker in combat, regardless of other character choices (within some reasonable limits). Every other level, the Warlock gets a feat. The feats are generally equal to the average or less powerful feats in 3e. They might allow the Warlock to become proficient with another skill, get bonuses on Diplomacy checks, whatever. A Warlock that took all feats in social challenges will be significantly better (perhaps much better) than a Warlock that specialized in options for the Eldritch Blast. The Blast specialized Warlock will have notably more options and a bit more potency as a ranged striker, but both basically still have the same Eldritch Blast at core.</p><p></p><p>Now, whether they will succeed at this, it's hard to say. I could see how it could work, though. For the central math around the characters, it's mostly just preventing stacking from allowing attack bonuses, damage and status effects to run wild on the basic attack. For additional options that give qualitative changes to the characters, I'm assuming those will come separate from these customization feats. One interesting thing to see is where training in another class' ability comes into play. There's obviously a lot of fun opportunities there, but a tremendous scope for abuse. I think it's pretty sure that will have been taken into account by the designers, we'll see how well when they start rolling things out.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FourthBear, post: 3989895, member: 55846"] To start, I'll just say that I do think the 3e fighter *does* have significantly more diverse options than the 1e and 2e fighter. It's just that's not saying much when comparing to the magic wielding classes. I agree that in any system that allow a significant amount of character customization, this issue of specialization is going to be an issue. From comments made on blogs, I suspect that they are dealing with this in a couple of ways: 1) Character ability segregation. Characters will have class abilities that will grant the central, basic abilities that the designers feel define the classes' role. These abilities will automatically level up in a way that should give the character the ability to compete in that role adequately. The character will then have another pool of abilities that can be used to customize the character (feats or similar) that can be used to enhance their core abilties or expand into other areas. 2) The customization abilities will be made significant, but not terribly strong. Probably less than the "better" feats in 3e. The difference between a character who has taken all customization in their class central concepts will be significantly better than the one that used customization to broaden the character's abilties, but not overwhelmingly so. To avoid problems at higher levels, I suspect that customization will be designed to give more options, but not to stack significantly with previous customization choices. For a specific, hypothetical example: All Warlocks have an Eldritch Blast. The attack bonus and damage on this blast increase for every Warlock level in a way that allows every Warlock to serve as a ranged striker in combat, regardless of other character choices (within some reasonable limits). Every other level, the Warlock gets a feat. The feats are generally equal to the average or less powerful feats in 3e. They might allow the Warlock to become proficient with another skill, get bonuses on Diplomacy checks, whatever. A Warlock that took all feats in social challenges will be significantly better (perhaps much better) than a Warlock that specialized in options for the Eldritch Blast. The Blast specialized Warlock will have notably more options and a bit more potency as a ranged striker, but both basically still have the same Eldritch Blast at core. Now, whether they will succeed at this, it's hard to say. I could see how it could work, though. For the central math around the characters, it's mostly just preventing stacking from allowing attack bonuses, damage and status effects to run wild on the basic attack. For additional options that give qualitative changes to the characters, I'm assuming those will come separate from these customization feats. One interesting thing to see is where training in another class' ability comes into play. There's obviously a lot of fun opportunities there, but a tremendous scope for abuse. I think it's pretty sure that will have been taken into account by the designers, we'll see how well when they start rolling things out. [/QUOTE]
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