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<blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 8647041" data-attributes="member: 2629"><p>I've been playing since the 1970s. You don't need to assume I'm incapable of evaluating the situation. A lot of my evaluation stems out of the specific PLAYER materials.Everything you spoke about there is design of which I'm highly critical.</p><p></p><p>Dictating player strategy, assuming that a hunter will be a primary target and heroes will not try to PROTECT their allies, a 25% chance of outright death in the first encounter ... and then making death a fake out? These are all bad design philosophies. A module should anticipate likely player strategies, but it should not ASSUME them, or be reliant upon those assumptions.Most paladin spell levels are spent on smites, so your concentration idea holds no water. Further, it isn't the presence of one or two of these spells on the same list - it is the presence of all of them. Across the board, the spell lists in the player options tend very strong, often gravitating towards the spells that are class features in disguise like find familiar, hunter's mark/hex, etc... YMMV. However, this design feels out of place with the materials, is poorly balanced (every attack made against the ranger in our party for the last 10 sessions has effectively been against AC 25), and feels more like a comic book character than a greek inspired figure.You already have reason to explore, and they do not encourage you to explore unique options enabled by the selection of an Epic Destony ... the storyline just falls in your lap, unmotivated, and without effort. You don't have have to try to obtain your epic destiny. The DM is essentially just telling you when it happens as you go along ... and the way it is written, you get to pick magic items as rewards for reaching certain parts of the adventure? I just completed my Epic Destiny, and it felt highly destined ... (it was going to happen regardless of any effort on my part), but does not feel Epic.</p><p>I'm most of the way through the sandbox. My assessment is based upon a lengthy play experience here with a pretty darn good DM. My perspective is based upon the experience of a player, which most people usingt he module will be... so perhaps is more relevant than that of a DM that sees everything behind the screen... (although it isn't like the stuff behind the screen is too myserious ... when a big secret is that characters with distinctive names are in fact ... the beings with those distinct names that the PCs have heard about and are described in the play materials ... well ... weak sauce.</p><p></p><p>You're a DM. You elected to run the campaign. You're invested. This gives you a tendency towards bias in support of the thing you selected. I'm someone that was presented with the option. I did not choose it. I am experiencing it as a receptive audience. </p><p></p><p>All this being said, I would consider running this as an adventure path with meaningful rewrites to address my concerns. The basic storyline is interesting, but the implementation is flawed, the mechanical aspects are problematic, and you could take the basic ideas of the Epic Desitny concepts and make them more interesting by adding significant additions to the setting that RELY upon the epic destony storyline and provide options for failure rather than just being 'toss ons' we get for free.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jgsugden, post: 8647041, member: 2629"] I've been playing since the 1970s. You don't need to assume I'm incapable of evaluating the situation. A lot of my evaluation stems out of the specific PLAYER materials.Everything you spoke about there is design of which I'm highly critical. Dictating player strategy, assuming that a hunter will be a primary target and heroes will not try to PROTECT their allies, a 25% chance of outright death in the first encounter ... and then making death a fake out? These are all bad design philosophies. A module should anticipate likely player strategies, but it should not ASSUME them, or be reliant upon those assumptions.Most paladin spell levels are spent on smites, so your concentration idea holds no water. Further, it isn't the presence of one or two of these spells on the same list - it is the presence of all of them. Across the board, the spell lists in the player options tend very strong, often gravitating towards the spells that are class features in disguise like find familiar, hunter's mark/hex, etc... YMMV. However, this design feels out of place with the materials, is poorly balanced (every attack made against the ranger in our party for the last 10 sessions has effectively been against AC 25), and feels more like a comic book character than a greek inspired figure.You already have reason to explore, and they do not encourage you to explore unique options enabled by the selection of an Epic Destony ... the storyline just falls in your lap, unmotivated, and without effort. You don't have have to try to obtain your epic destiny. The DM is essentially just telling you when it happens as you go along ... and the way it is written, you get to pick magic items as rewards for reaching certain parts of the adventure? I just completed my Epic Destiny, and it felt highly destined ... (it was going to happen regardless of any effort on my part), but does not feel Epic. I'm most of the way through the sandbox. My assessment is based upon a lengthy play experience here with a pretty darn good DM. My perspective is based upon the experience of a player, which most people usingt he module will be... so perhaps is more relevant than that of a DM that sees everything behind the screen... (although it isn't like the stuff behind the screen is too myserious ... when a big secret is that characters with distinctive names are in fact ... the beings with those distinct names that the PCs have heard about and are described in the play materials ... well ... weak sauce. You're a DM. You elected to run the campaign. You're invested. This gives you a tendency towards bias in support of the thing you selected. I'm someone that was presented with the option. I did not choose it. I am experiencing it as a receptive audience. All this being said, I would consider running this as an adventure path with meaningful rewrites to address my concerns. The basic storyline is interesting, but the implementation is flawed, the mechanical aspects are problematic, and you could take the basic ideas of the Epic Desitny concepts and make them more interesting by adding significant additions to the setting that RELY upon the epic destony storyline and provide options for failure rather than just being 'toss ons' we get for free. [/QUOTE]
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