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Message: <blockquote data-quote="keterys" data-source="post: 4982221" data-attributes="member: 43019">And I'm saying that players can cope with getting damaged. In fact, not being damaged is potentially frustrating sometimes.But they _hate_ being permanently dazed, stunned, or whatever. So I don't think the DPR argument is the critical point of the discussion and every point, with the exception of the extremes, is just as relevant.Doubling the chance of not being affected vs. doubling the chance of being affected. Tomato, tomato. The +/- 1 is the same. The difference is that you _already_ feel like you're being autohit or the DM feels like you're auto-missed. But when the 2 actually misses you, you still go 'Holy crap, you missed!?' and feel great, and when the 19 actually hits 'The DM goes, hey, wait, does a 35 actually hit you? Holy crap, I hit'Much of the combats in dnd really have no great capacity for the entire group to die, and it's actually far more a competition for 'How fast can you do this?' 'What cool stuff can you do on the way?' 'Do I manage to make you blow daily or consumable resources, or maybe kill one guy?'. There are, of course, the full on everyone might die combats, but it's very important to make sure as many of the possible combats are fun along the way.No, they don't. From an absolute standpoint they are identical (+/-5%). From a relative standpoint, small additions to low defenses mean you're not affected a greater percentage of the time (+1 = +100% more misses) and small subtractions to high defenses mean you are affected a greater percentage of the time (-1 = +100% more hits). Vice versa if you flip the bit. So it's all a matter of perspective for what you're looking for. Which means absolute is the most useful for discussing effects.For DPR, sure, and that certainly does matter, but there's all kinds of things that impact on that - miss damage, extra crit, does its attack carry a defense penalty or grant CA, ongoing damage (which doesn't stack with repeat hits and failed saves), vulnerability save ends or 1 turn (where repeat hits are more important).</blockquote>

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