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Message: <blockquote data-quote="keterys" data-source="post: 4986322" data-attributes="member: 43019">I gave several others as well, such as immobilizing defenders and dazing strikers. I'd hope I wouldn't give a worst case example, hmm?Of course it is, but which of the two characters gets the buff and gets stunned two times more doesn't necessarily change the duration of the fight by an entire round. In fact, given that the high defense character was down to at-wills, the only real possibility to shorten it is if the low defense character gets the bonus, so can use encounter powers that have a stronger effect.Hardly a given - the stun attack might not even do any damage, but the damaging attack be against a different defense entirely. A dracolich, for instance, can easily take that long to kill and stun a ton and a half of people, but only deal 16 necrotic damage with its breath and none with its glare. Against a character with 10 necrotic resistance, it might not even require a single heal, nevermind one of the three to six the party might have available. _Least_? It's one of the most clear as to what happens with it - all of the rest are extremely subjective.You still haven't actually shown that. If you don't like stun for some reason, try immobilizing or restraining melee characters out of melee, or ranged characters into melee, or dazing the ranger, warlock, fighter, or swordmage.And yet, they're the most important aspect of any discussion of FRWs being too low. If you pay attention to damage, you'll get incorrect answers like:1) Well, PCs aren't taking enough damage now, so improving their defenses is bad2) If a creature deals too much damage at 20 damage per hit with a 95% hit rate, reduce its damage to 12 instead.The first is still bad, from a perspective of effects, fun, and fighting futility and frustration.The second is still bad, because even if you address the average damage you still need to address all those other things.Absolutely agreed.Again, agreed.You do need to be careful, though - a character might have +1 to +3 from an item, +1 to +3 from masterwork light armor, +6 from feats, under core rules. So any house rules need to potentially adjust to that.</blockquote>

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