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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Non-AC Defenses
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<blockquote data-quote="Jhaelen" data-source="post: 4991490" data-attributes="member: 46713"><p>Well, let's see:</p><p>Someone stated his opinion as if it was a given fact. I happened to disagree and asked for proof. Why did I do this, if I didn't believe it was possible to prove it?</p><p></p><p>Do I really have to explain this? It's all rhetorics.</p><p></p><p>Naturally, I did it to show that the 'fact' was in fact just an opinion. I'm not _really_ sure if he's wrong or not (I just don't think so). So, here's the options:</p><p></p><p>Prove it one way or another or conclude it's unprovable.*</p><p>Well, since I'm not a community supporter, I cannot search the forum. I _think_ the argument was almost a year ago, shortly after the PHB2 was published. I don't have a clue how to find that thread after all this time.</p><p></p><p>*: Well, to be completely honest, I'm pretty sure you could actually prove it one way or another. The number of possible permutations for race/class build/attribute array is finite. </p><p></p><p>It's just a large enough number that I cannot spend the time to do it - but someone else who does have lots of time probably could.</p><p></p><p></p><p>There's something I still don't get about these discussions:</p><p>In 3E, the equivalent of non-AC defenses were the saving throws. Why didn't anyone think it was a problem that many classes only had a single (or even two) strong saving throw(s)?</p><p></p><p>The standard reply, I guess, would be: 'because everyone knows, that 3E math was totally off!' Which makes me wonder how we could play with this system for ten years (and still are).</p><p></p><p></p><p>On a slightly different topic:</p><p>There's something we can now do, which we couldn't do a year ago:</p><p>Create a sample party (or even better: use one of WotCs sample parties) and compare it against every encounter in the WotC adventure module series H1-H3, P1-P3, E1-E3. Now, I don't have the complete series, but I'd love to see someone doing this!</p><p></p><p>I'm really curious whose position this exercise would strengthen!</p><p>Will there be any encounters where a pc will be hit on a 2 or an enemy only be hit on a 20?</p><p>If so, how many?</p><p></p><p>That would at least be a semi-objective way to test how broken the 4e math really is.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jhaelen, post: 4991490, member: 46713"] Well, let's see: Someone stated his opinion as if it was a given fact. I happened to disagree and asked for proof. Why did I do this, if I didn't believe it was possible to prove it? Do I really have to explain this? It's all rhetorics. Naturally, I did it to show that the 'fact' was in fact just an opinion. I'm not _really_ sure if he's wrong or not (I just don't think so). So, here's the options: Prove it one way or another or conclude it's unprovable.* Well, since I'm not a community supporter, I cannot search the forum. I _think_ the argument was almost a year ago, shortly after the PHB2 was published. I don't have a clue how to find that thread after all this time. *: Well, to be completely honest, I'm pretty sure you could actually prove it one way or another. The number of possible permutations for race/class build/attribute array is finite. It's just a large enough number that I cannot spend the time to do it - but someone else who does have lots of time probably could. There's something I still don't get about these discussions: In 3E, the equivalent of non-AC defenses were the saving throws. Why didn't anyone think it was a problem that many classes only had a single (or even two) strong saving throw(s)? The standard reply, I guess, would be: 'because everyone knows, that 3E math was totally off!' Which makes me wonder how we could play with this system for ten years (and still are). On a slightly different topic: There's something we can now do, which we couldn't do a year ago: Create a sample party (or even better: use one of WotCs sample parties) and compare it against every encounter in the WotC adventure module series H1-H3, P1-P3, E1-E3. Now, I don't have the complete series, but I'd love to see someone doing this! I'm really curious whose position this exercise would strengthen! Will there be any encounters where a pc will be hit on a 2 or an enemy only be hit on a 20? If so, how many? That would at least be a semi-objective way to test how broken the 4e math really is. [/QUOTE]
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