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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 4997316" data-attributes="member: 2011">If they were +2 feats, I might buy into this theory.But at +3 for Expertise and +4 for NADs (and +2 to three NADS for a total of +6), nope.I don't buy it for a second.There are no automatic +3 or +4 feat or ability boosts (to combat offense and defense) anywhere in the game system. There are a few single target if it hits boosts this high or higher, but not automatic day in and day out every single round ones.+3 and +4 which stack with everything are HUGE in a D20 system. Not just good, but HUGE. Game breaking if the game is already balanced.Add +2 to Will at Paragon and +4 to Will at Epic to a Cleric at high level and that Cleric is nearly immune to Will attacks. For example, level 30, 2 for Cleric, 1 for race, 15 for level, 9 for stat, 6 for item, 6 for feats, 2 for Pitmail Armor, 3 for another will item such as Circlet of Indomitability = 54.The highest vs. Will in the Monster Manual is +35. It hits this 54 on a 19 (this does not even include powers or Paragon or Epic abilities). The vast majority of monsters hit on a 20.Why? Because AV added in +2 for Pitmail Armor and +3 for Circlet of Indomitability and PHB II added in +4 for Epic feat. That's +9. Fricking +9 is HUGE.They are not there just to make min maxers nearly immune. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.They were added in so that auto hit became not so auto. As a side effect, min maxers are now nearly immune.They were added to fix the low end, unfortunately, that has the side effect of unbalancing the high end. Opps.The math IS important when nearly all foes need a 20 to hit the Cleric. It PROVES that the game is now imbalanced when taking two feats and two items does this.And this is not really min maxing. It's just two feats and two items. The Cleric (or most any class) can have two defenses nearly this good.As a DM, do you really want to be playing a high level campaign where several of the PCs can only get hit on nearly a 20 for some of their defenses?Does that sound like fun to you???</blockquote>

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