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Community
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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Non-Binary Skills
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<blockquote data-quote="Theo R Cwithin" data-source="post: 5022890" data-attributes="member: 75712"><p>(Q1) I think what you're getting at makes perfect sense in many instances.</p><p></p><p>The only thing I'd point out is that one skill might have two different uses or circumstances, one of which neatly follows the "fall-on-fail-by-5" model, the other following the "fail-by-degrees" or "fall-only-on-fumble" model. (And the inverse, for successes, naturally.)</p><p></p><p>Climb is a good example. For climbing up very steep slope, failure by degrees makes sense: fail by less than 5 is no progress; fail by 5 or more is slip back so many feet, depending on the number; and fumble means roll back to the bottom. </p><p></p><p>Climbing an overhang without ropes, though, is a different situation; fail by less than 5 means no progress. But what does a fail by more than 5 mean? You can't slip back in this case; falling is the only option. To my mind, in this particular case, falling on less than a fumble is quite appropriate, simply because there's much less room for error. Alternatively, it's like redefining fumble to be DC-5, rather than 1.</p><p></p><p>Jump is similar. You know you can jump at least (ranks+modifiers) feet; the d20 roll is effectively how much farther you go. Long jump is really one of the simplest cases out there, because it doesn't even really use a DC: Roll the jump check. That's how far you jumped. But if there's a chasm under you, and your jump is more than 5ft short, then you fall and take a dip in the lava, fumbles or no. Whether or not there's a chasm determines whether or not the skill is used in its binary form.</p><p>(btw, this is why I like Jump: it's super simple for my tiny mind in it's most used application! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> )</p><p></p><p>On the other hand, your fix is nice because it *does* eliminate the 20 foot uncertainty in the jump, down to a more realistic range. Consider me officially torn on this one.</p><p></p><p>(Q2) Yes, I think the mechanic is an excellent one, with the caveat that it shouldn't necessarily apply in all cases for a particular skill. More precisely: it's a great mechanic on a "per use" basis, rather than on a "per skill" basis. In fact, I think this is exactly how I've done a lot of on-the-fly rulings, but without any formalization of a rule.</p><p></p><p>(Q3) Other skills that can benefit from degrees of success:</p><p>Decipher script - more success equates to better understanding</p><p>Craft - more success gets it done quicker, or gets more made (if applicable).</p><p>Profession - more success earns more income, makes a contact, etc</p><p>Perform - (ditto)</p><p>Disable Device - more success gets it done quicker (and I'd keep fail-by-5, at least for traps because, well, that's what they're supposed to do)</p><p>Speak Language - more success means improved communication, therefore bonus on related social skill checks, eg Diplomacy, Gather Info, Bluff, etc. (But won't this only work using ranks?)</p><p>Heal - more success gives faster healing (eg, more hp recovered per day)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Theo R Cwithin, post: 5022890, member: 75712"] (Q1) I think what you're getting at makes perfect sense in many instances. The only thing I'd point out is that one skill might have two different uses or circumstances, one of which neatly follows the "fall-on-fail-by-5" model, the other following the "fail-by-degrees" or "fall-only-on-fumble" model. (And the inverse, for successes, naturally.) Climb is a good example. For climbing up very steep slope, failure by degrees makes sense: fail by less than 5 is no progress; fail by 5 or more is slip back so many feet, depending on the number; and fumble means roll back to the bottom. Climbing an overhang without ropes, though, is a different situation; fail by less than 5 means no progress. But what does a fail by more than 5 mean? You can't slip back in this case; falling is the only option. To my mind, in this particular case, falling on less than a fumble is quite appropriate, simply because there's much less room for error. Alternatively, it's like redefining fumble to be DC-5, rather than 1. Jump is similar. You know you can jump at least (ranks+modifiers) feet; the d20 roll is effectively how much farther you go. Long jump is really one of the simplest cases out there, because it doesn't even really use a DC: Roll the jump check. That's how far you jumped. But if there's a chasm under you, and your jump is more than 5ft short, then you fall and take a dip in the lava, fumbles or no. Whether or not there's a chasm determines whether or not the skill is used in its binary form. (btw, this is why I like Jump: it's super simple for my tiny mind in it's most used application! ;) ) On the other hand, your fix is nice because it *does* eliminate the 20 foot uncertainty in the jump, down to a more realistic range. Consider me officially torn on this one. (Q2) Yes, I think the mechanic is an excellent one, with the caveat that it shouldn't necessarily apply in all cases for a particular skill. More precisely: it's a great mechanic on a "per use" basis, rather than on a "per skill" basis. In fact, I think this is exactly how I've done a lot of on-the-fly rulings, but without any formalization of a rule. (Q3) Other skills that can benefit from degrees of success: Decipher script - more success equates to better understanding Craft - more success gets it done quicker, or gets more made (if applicable). Profession - more success earns more income, makes a contact, etc Perform - (ditto) Disable Device - more success gets it done quicker (and I'd keep fail-by-5, at least for traps because, well, that's what they're supposed to do) Speak Language - more success means improved communication, therefore bonus on related social skill checks, eg Diplomacy, Gather Info, Bluff, etc. (But won't this only work using ranks?) Heal - more success gives faster healing (eg, more hp recovered per day) [/QUOTE]
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