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<blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 6262579" data-attributes="member: 67338">This has come up time and time again, expertise feats, and at will damage cantrips are the two I've seen the most (4e and 5e respectively) but there are other things.Person A says &quot;I don't like X (where X could be anything) I want it out of the game now.&quot;Person B says &quot;I like X and want it in game, if you don't like it just don't use it.&quot;then comes the confusing partPerson A says &quot;If I can take X I have to because it is the best option&quot;Even if person B-F then claim (as I have) &quot;I don't take X all the time, but when I want to, I want the option&quot;Person A will come back with &quot;It's too much of a non choice.&quot;[sblock=expertise] when I pointed out not only did my entire table never all take expertise feats, and even listed character builds that were fun and rocked and had no need (where hitting just fine) I was told my group that was handleing above level challenges must not be good at optimizing <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/erm.png"&nbsp; class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":erm:" title="Erm&nbsp; &nbsp; :erm:" data-shortname=":erm:" /> [/sblock][sblock=cantrips] in another thread the argument is being made that ray of frost is a must have, evenif you want to play a sage with no offensive spells <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/erm.png"&nbsp; class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":erm:" title="Erm&nbsp; &nbsp; :erm:" data-shortname=":erm:" />&nbsp; [/sblock]What I don't understand is, if you don't like something, how can you feel forced to take it? It makes no sense to me. how can something that some people like, some people don't like be made to not ruin the game for either set. Making them optional isn't even good enough for some who don't like it...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="GMforPowergamers, post: 6262579, member: 67338"] This has come up time and time again, expertise feats, and at will damage cantrips are the two I've seen the most (4e and 5e respectively) but there are other things. Person A says "I don't like X (where X could be anything) I want it out of the game now." Person B says "I like X and want it in game, if you don't like it just don't use it." then comes the confusing part Person A says "If I can take X I have to because it is the best option" Even if person B-F then claim (as I have) "I don't take X all the time, but when I want to, I want the option" Person A will come back with "It's too much of a non choice." [sblock=expertise] when I pointed out not only did my entire table never all take expertise feats, and even listed character builds that were fun and rocked and had no need (where hitting just fine) I was told my group that was handleing above level challenges must not be good at optimizing :erm: [/sblock] [sblock=cantrips] in another thread the argument is being made that ray of frost is a must have, evenif you want to play a sage with no offensive spells :erm: [/sblock] What I don't understand is, if you don't like something, how can you feel forced to take it? It makes no sense to me. how can something that some people like, some people don't like be made to not ruin the game for either set. Making them optional isn't even good enough for some who don't like it... [/QUOTE]

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