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<blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 6262638" data-attributes="member: 67338">see the problem lies that I agree that the basic idea... (Game should meet basic expectation of working out of the box) but I disagree that the game doesn't work (both 4e with and without expertise and 5e with or without cantrips that damage.)see there is a lot I agree with balance people with, but this one isn't it...my question is this (and I will ask it twice once for each example)4e why is my wizard who hits more often then not and is a power player in the game not effective just because he doesn't have expertise? Infact just for a true example why isn't the Ranger (scout I believe) who out damages the rest of the party and has only 1 pt less to hit the then highest attack in the party and who is mostly a MVP at the game less effective then the fighter or sorcerer who both have expertise and both do less damage and who one has 1 pt higher to hit at 17th level when both of them have expertise??5e why is my wizard less effective for having minor illusion then yours with ray of frost? isn't it intirely up to the game and the group to decide. now the only place I will agree with the cantrip people is it should scale slower (on the 6's so 1d8 1-5th 2d8 6th-11th 3d8 12th-17th and 4d8 at 18-20) that alone I think fixes the problem (witch I see as very small)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="GMforPowergamers, post: 6262638, member: 67338"] see the problem lies that I agree that the basic idea... (Game should meet basic expectation of working out of the box) but I disagree that the game doesn't work (both 4e with and without expertise and 5e with or without cantrips that damage.) see there is a lot I agree with balance people with, but this one isn't it... my question is this (and I will ask it twice once for each example) 4e why is my wizard who hits more often then not and is a power player in the game not effective just because he doesn't have expertise? Infact just for a true example why isn't the Ranger (scout I believe) who out damages the rest of the party and has only 1 pt less to hit the then highest attack in the party and who is mostly a MVP at the game less effective then the fighter or sorcerer who both have expertise and both do less damage and who one has 1 pt higher to hit at 17th level when both of them have expertise?? 5e why is my wizard less effective for having minor illusion then yours with ray of frost? isn't it intirely up to the game and the group to decide. now the only place I will agree with the cantrip people is it should scale slower (on the 6's so 1d8 1-5th 2d8 6th-11th 3d8 12th-17th and 4d8 at 18-20) that alone I think fixes the problem (witch I see as very small) [/QUOTE]

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