Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Non-cliche slavery in fantasy campaign settings?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Croesus" data-source="post: 6279894" data-attributes="member: 35019"><p>1. I'm unsure that one can say "Most fantasy campaign settings use the field slave/serfdom model of slavery where the slaves are treated horrifically, being regularly worked to death, casually beaten, raped or murdered", since slavery is rarely included in any published setting, and we have no comprehensive data on homebrews.</p><p></p><p>2. While there have indeed been many differences in the forms of slavery between societies and eras, I find very few examples where slavery was not considered a horrific fate. Ancient Greeks and Romans constantly feared slave rebellions, and those captured in battle and sold into slavery generally did not think of themselves as "second-class citizens". Even house slaves could be abused and there are documented stories of Roman citizens being murdered by their house slaves. I also cannot find any examples of individuals voluntarily choosing slavery in Greece or Rome. Plenty of examples of Roman citizens entering serfdom due to debt, but not choosing slavery because they saw that as an improvement. </p><p></p><p>3. I did find one example of voluntary servitude - specifically, the devsirme of the Ottoman System. Slaves under this system were drawn only from the Balkans, these slaves were the property of the Sultan alone, were converted (voluntarily or not) to Islam, and trained either for Janissary military units or the palace central administration. Devsirme recruits started at the bottom and were promoted based on talent and performance. Though legally slaves, this seems closer to a caste system, similar to the administrators of Confucian China. The primary reason for this system was to protect the Sultan from rebellion - these slaves were completely dependent on the Sultan for their livelihood and rewards, and therefore (for a time) showed considerable loyalty. Of course, as time went on, the Janissaries became kingmakers, dominating the later Sultans, which begs the question how much like slaves they really were...</p><p></p><p>If one wants to have a campaign that's a bit different, adding something like the devsirme would accomplish that. But given our modern views toward slavery, and the historical reality that the vast majority of slaves were in no way better off enslaved vs. free, I wouldn't recommend it. One could accomplish much the same by using Byzantine eunuchs as a template. (Eunuchs were considered safe in positions of power because they couldn't father a rival dynasty. However, many eunuchs still felt considerable loyalty to their families, and more than one eunuch attempted to place a relative on the throne, so it's not a foolproof option for a cautious emperor.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Croesus, post: 6279894, member: 35019"] 1. I'm unsure that one can say "Most fantasy campaign settings use the field slave/serfdom model of slavery where the slaves are treated horrifically, being regularly worked to death, casually beaten, raped or murdered", since slavery is rarely included in any published setting, and we have no comprehensive data on homebrews. 2. While there have indeed been many differences in the forms of slavery between societies and eras, I find very few examples where slavery was not considered a horrific fate. Ancient Greeks and Romans constantly feared slave rebellions, and those captured in battle and sold into slavery generally did not think of themselves as "second-class citizens". Even house slaves could be abused and there are documented stories of Roman citizens being murdered by their house slaves. I also cannot find any examples of individuals voluntarily choosing slavery in Greece or Rome. Plenty of examples of Roman citizens entering serfdom due to debt, but not choosing slavery because they saw that as an improvement. 3. I did find one example of voluntary servitude - specifically, the devsirme of the Ottoman System. Slaves under this system were drawn only from the Balkans, these slaves were the property of the Sultan alone, were converted (voluntarily or not) to Islam, and trained either for Janissary military units or the palace central administration. Devsirme recruits started at the bottom and were promoted based on talent and performance. Though legally slaves, this seems closer to a caste system, similar to the administrators of Confucian China. The primary reason for this system was to protect the Sultan from rebellion - these slaves were completely dependent on the Sultan for their livelihood and rewards, and therefore (for a time) showed considerable loyalty. Of course, as time went on, the Janissaries became kingmakers, dominating the later Sultans, which begs the question how much like slaves they really were... If one wants to have a campaign that's a bit different, adding something like the devsirme would accomplish that. But given our modern views toward slavery, and the historical reality that the vast majority of slaves were in no way better off enslaved vs. free, I wouldn't recommend it. One could accomplish much the same by using Byzantine eunuchs as a template. (Eunuchs were considered safe in positions of power because they couldn't father a rival dynasty. However, many eunuchs still felt considerable loyalty to their families, and more than one eunuch attempted to place a relative on the throne, so it's not a foolproof option for a cautious emperor.) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Non-cliche slavery in fantasy campaign settings?
Top