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<blockquote data-quote="The Little Raven" data-source="post: 4203225" data-attributes="member: 10095">Devils aren't absolute evil. They're corrupted evil. Fallen from their intended purpose into the debased beings that they've become. Prisoners who seek to break their prison and corrupt reality to their purpose, selling their services in order to collect the power to do so.Demons, yeah... I've never really been a big fan.Let's see.&quot;If they exist they would be rituals in 4E.&quot; - In reference to Animate Dead/Summon Devil/Demon. Most likely a true statement (except for some specific examples).&quot;Not guaranteed as 4e seems to be build around the &quot;The PCs are the good guys&quot; idea.&quot; - You're saying that Animate Dead and Summon Devil/Demon are not guaranteed to exist in the game, since the game is built around the PCs being good guys. The &quot;good guys&quot; comment is wrong, especially in light of the reduction of alignment's role, and the removal of 3e's &quot;Good is the best alignment&quot; philosophy. Since the PCs aren't just the &quot;good guys,&quot; and we have a class who has a variant predicated upon making pacts with devils (warlock), it's somewhat silly to assume that this non-existence &quot;good guy&quot; clause would prevent summoning demons or creating undead from ever being in the game.&quot;NPCs don't follow rules and because of that don't need written out abilities and rituals.&quot; - This means that NPCs don't follow rules (which is false) and don't need written out abilities and rituals (which is also false). The pit fiend has several abilities written out, one of which summons other devils. He's got mechanics that place him as an elite, making him the equivalent of 2 monsters. That demonstrates an NPC using rules and having abilities written out, one of which you claim is not guaranteed to be in the game, despite it being in the game. Sure, we haven't seen whether players can get the ability to summon demons yet, but then again we haven't seen something like 95% of the game's content.Now what context did I miss...or rather, what context are you now trying to apply to your plain statement?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="The Little Raven, post: 4203225, member: 10095"] Devils aren't absolute evil. They're corrupted evil. Fallen from their intended purpose into the debased beings that they've become. Prisoners who seek to break their prison and corrupt reality to their purpose, selling their services in order to collect the power to do so. Demons, yeah... I've never really been a big fan. Let's see. "If they exist they would be rituals in 4E." - In reference to Animate Dead/Summon Devil/Demon. Most likely a true statement (except for some specific examples). "Not guaranteed as 4e seems to be build around the "The PCs are the good guys" idea." - You're saying that Animate Dead and Summon Devil/Demon are not guaranteed to exist in the game, since the game is built around the PCs being good guys. The "good guys" comment is wrong, especially in light of the reduction of alignment's role, and the removal of 3e's "Good is the best alignment" philosophy. Since the PCs aren't just the "good guys," and we have a class who has a variant predicated upon making pacts with devils (warlock), it's somewhat silly to assume that this non-existence "good guy" clause would prevent summoning demons or creating undead from ever being in the game. "NPCs don't follow rules and because of that don't need written out abilities and rituals." - This means that NPCs don't follow rules (which is false) and don't need written out abilities and rituals (which is also false). The pit fiend has several abilities written out, one of which summons other devils. He's got mechanics that place him as an elite, making him the equivalent of 2 monsters. That demonstrates an NPC using rules and having abilities written out, one of which you claim is not guaranteed to be in the game, despite it being in the game. Sure, we haven't seen whether players can get the ability to summon demons yet, but then again we haven't seen something like 95% of the game's content. Now what context did I miss...or rather, what context are you now trying to apply to your plain statement? [/QUOTE]

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