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<blockquote data-quote="IceFractal" data-source="post: 4043557" data-attributes="member: 27704">You know, this isn't some finicky &quot;realism&quot; point, this is distance behaving as we know it in life rather than as if we were in the far realms.&nbsp; If people move 50% faster in some directions that others - that's a pretty damn noticable effect.&nbsp; And it isn't &quot;just an abstraction&quot; if it's the rules for combat.&nbsp; If an Ogre is able to charge you and kill you because of the 1-1 diagonal rule, then that's a real effect in the game world that you can't just explain away as abstraction.And more importantly, as ainatan brings up, it makes defending someone damn near impossible.&nbsp; Heck, you can put a 40' long stone wall in front of someone to defend them, and it won't even slow people down.&nbsp; The only way to defend someone is completely encircling them.&nbsp; But wait, defense can work if everyone lines up diagonally!&nbsp; In fact, it works altogether too well, since you can retreat twice as fast as they can advance.&nbsp; Ok, so now the characters are making random-looking movements at the start of every combat, responding in-game to something that's supposed to be an abstraction.&nbsp; Speaking of responding in-game to supposed abstractions, it's going to be ... interesting trying to play a fireball-tossing Wizard now:&quot;Ok, everyone form a line and hold back the foes so I can fireball them without hitting you!&quot;&quot;We are in a line!&quot;&quot;But it's a diagonal line - it has to be orthagonally aligned to the grid or it won't work!&quot;But at least cones are 50% bigger (and square shaped), when you fire them at an angle.AoE effects - breaking the 4th wall since 2008.So from a gamist point, it makes tactics extremely dependant on the direction the grid is aligned, and replaces figuring out 1.5 square increments with figuring out how to maintain a diagonal/non-diagonal alignment to the foes.&nbsp; From a simulation point, it breaks any resemblance to a Euclidean world.&nbsp; From a narrative point, why are you even using a grid?&nbsp; I don't see an improvement in any direction.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="IceFractal, post: 4043557, member: 27704"] You know, this isn't some finicky "realism" point, this is distance behaving as we know it in life rather than as if we were in the far realms. If people move 50% faster in some directions that others - that's a pretty damn noticable effect. And it isn't "just an abstraction" if it's the rules for combat. If an Ogre is able to charge you and kill you because of the 1-1 diagonal rule, then that's a real effect in the game world that you can't just explain away as abstraction. And more importantly, as ainatan brings up, it makes defending someone damn near impossible. Heck, you can put a 40' long stone wall in front of someone to defend them, and it won't even slow people down. The only way to defend someone is completely encircling them. But wait, defense can work if everyone lines up diagonally! In fact, it works altogether too well, since you can retreat twice as fast as they can advance. Ok, so now the characters are making random-looking movements at the start of every combat, responding in-game to something that's supposed to be an abstraction. Speaking of responding in-game to supposed abstractions, it's going to be ... [I]interesting[/I] trying to play a fireball-tossing Wizard now: "Ok, everyone form a line and hold back the foes so I can fireball them without hitting you!" "We are in a line!" "But it's a diagonal line - it has to be orthagonally aligned to the grid or it won't work!" But at least cones are 50% bigger (and square shaped), when you fire them at an angle. AoE effects - breaking the 4th wall since 2008. So from a gamist point, it makes tactics extremely dependant on the direction the grid is aligned, and replaces figuring out 1.5 square increments with figuring out how to maintain a diagonal/non-diagonal alignment to the foes. From a simulation point, it breaks any resemblance to a Euclidean world. From a narrative point, why are you even using a grid? I don't see an improvement in any direction. [/QUOTE]

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