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<blockquote data-quote="Tellerve" data-source="post: 1173755" data-attributes="member: 2412">Yes, improvised weapons could possibly use a rework, although I just think maybe instead have something non feat related to getting surprise on someone.&nbsp; This obviously would open another can of worms but it helps to largely make up for the huge amount of scenes in movies where people use lamps, frying pans, whatever to wack people that usually are surprised or from behind and knock them unconsious.&nbsp; Now, having said that I do NOT think it should be close to automatic, as one movie, I can't remember which, had the people hit still awake and the hittie asked him if he was out and the guy replied that he wasn't so he got hit again.&nbsp; It was quite funny as movies do portray it as very easy to knock someone out and I agree that to belt someone on the back of the head, knock them out, and they be &quot;relatively&quot; fine would take some skill.So, then, have you found or even thought of a way to mesh/knock out brawl and roll it into combat martial arts?&nbsp; I'm already not a fan of brawl and having it just go bye bye in my campaign I think could work.&nbsp; You could still have the knockout tree just tack it onto CMA.&nbsp; What do you think...what other problems do you forsee?&nbsp; Would it be just too hard to try and wrangle them together considering the different feat and damage hierarchy?I also noticed last night as I was going through the feats, Improved Feint.&nbsp; Which to me is right up there with what a good boxer would have, with all the dodging, weaving, and light jabs to set up the hook.&nbsp; However, it requires 13+ int and Streetwise, which just annoys me.&nbsp; Obviously I can change the flavor text to have streetwise not be &quot;streetwise&quot; so it isn't a huge annoyance...just a wee one.Tellerve</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tellerve, post: 1173755, member: 2412"] Yes, improvised weapons could possibly use a rework, although I just think maybe instead have something non feat related to getting surprise on someone. This obviously would open another can of worms but it helps to largely make up for the huge amount of scenes in movies where people use lamps, frying pans, whatever to wack people that usually are surprised or from behind and knock them unconsious. Now, having said that I do NOT think it should be close to automatic, as one movie, I can't remember which, had the people hit still awake and the hittie asked him if he was out and the guy replied that he wasn't so he got hit again. It was quite funny as movies do portray it as very easy to knock someone out and I agree that to belt someone on the back of the head, knock them out, and they be "relatively" fine would take some skill. So, then, have you found or even thought of a way to mesh/knock out brawl and roll it into combat martial arts? I'm already not a fan of brawl and having it just go bye bye in my campaign I think could work. You could still have the knockout tree just tack it onto CMA. What do you think...what other problems do you forsee? Would it be just too hard to try and wrangle them together considering the different feat and damage hierarchy? I also noticed last night as I was going through the feats, Improved Feint. Which to me is right up there with what a good boxer would have, with all the dodging, weaving, and light jabs to set up the hook. However, it requires 13+ int and Streetwise, which just annoys me. Obviously I can change the flavor text to have streetwise not be "streetwise" so it isn't a huge annoyance...just a wee one. Tellerve [/QUOTE]

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