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<blockquote data-quote="takyris" data-source="post: 1174194" data-attributes="member: 5171">Well, the boxer is provoking an AoO every time he attacks -- by the core rules, I'd take the fencer over the boxer.&nbsp; According to Charles Ryan, even if that boxer has Combat Martial Arts, he still provokes an AoO with an unarmed attack if he wants to use his Brawl skill.&nbsp; Now, admittedly, I think that this ruling is full of poo, and I say that if you buy CMA AND Brawl, you get to make Brawling attacks without provoking an AoO.&nbsp; Nevertheless, that's another feat that the boxer would have to take.As for the fencer, I'd suggest that the little feints that they ordinarily make are just part of standard attacks -- it's only big gigantic &quot;trick&quot; feints that count as feints by D&amp;D rules.&nbsp; And the few times I've seen &quot;big&quot; feints instead of little &quot;Am I attacking here?&nbsp; No, I'm attacking HERE&quot; redirections, it did cost the person a bit of time.&nbsp; So I'm fine with Improved Feint not being easy to get -- and requiring a bit more experience in fighting dirty (ie, Brawl &amp; Streetfighting).The ability to bypass Dex and Dodge bonuses to Defense is huge.&nbsp; If it were available either as a primary feat (no feat pre-reqs) or as a feat that a melee fighter could get after taking feats that were obviously good for him already, then there'd be no drawback, and everyone in the world would have this feat.&nbsp; As it stands now, some of my fencer PCs have it, and some don't.&nbsp; It's not always worth it (sometimes I sacrifice it for two-weapon fighting or power attack and sunder), but it often is.&nbsp; Seems balanced to me.YMMV, of course.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="takyris, post: 1174194, member: 5171"] Well, the boxer is provoking an AoO every time he attacks -- by the core rules, I'd take the fencer over the boxer. According to Charles Ryan, even if that boxer has Combat Martial Arts, he still provokes an AoO with an unarmed attack if he wants to use his Brawl skill. Now, admittedly, I think that this ruling is full of poo, and I say that if you buy CMA AND Brawl, you get to make Brawling attacks without provoking an AoO. Nevertheless, that's another feat that the boxer would have to take. As for the fencer, I'd suggest that the little feints that they ordinarily make are just part of standard attacks -- it's only big gigantic "trick" feints that count as feints by D&D rules. And the few times I've seen "big" feints instead of little "Am I attacking here? No, I'm attacking HERE" redirections, it did cost the person a bit of time. So I'm fine with Improved Feint not being easy to get -- and requiring a bit more experience in fighting dirty (ie, Brawl & Streetfighting). The ability to bypass Dex and Dodge bonuses to Defense is huge. If it were available either as a primary feat (no feat pre-reqs) or as a feat that a melee fighter could get after taking feats that were obviously good for him already, then there'd be no drawback, and everyone in the world would have this feat. As it stands now, some of my fencer PCs have it, and some don't. It's not always worth it (sometimes I sacrifice it for two-weapon fighting or power attack and sunder), but it often is. Seems balanced to me. YMMV, of course. [/QUOTE]

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