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<blockquote data-quote="takyris" data-source="post: 920276" data-attributes="member: 5171">You don't have to kill them.&nbsp; You have to take them to negative hit points.&nbsp; You're then free to treat their injury and ensure that they don't die.&nbsp; Or they could stabilize on their own.Really... Fort Save, DC20.&nbsp; What are the chances that someone's really going to die by failing this save a whole bunch of times.The Medic advanced class can bring someone back from -10 or lower.&nbsp; That means that -10 is NOT dead -- it's &quot;near death&quot;.&nbsp; That makes the negatives even less like death.&nbsp; The negatives are just you being unconscious.I've said it multiple times, so I don't want to beat a dead horse, but:1) It's not that hard to knock someone out with nonlethal damage.&nbsp; A high-level dude with a Tonfa and Power Attack can do it with very little trouble.&nbsp; A low-level guy with the right feats can do it, too.&nbsp; You get enough feats in this game that it's not that big a deal.2) Taking someone into the negatives does not mean that you're killing them.&nbsp; It's not a mortal wound.&nbsp; It's an unconscious-level injury.&nbsp; If, every time someone in d20 Modern goes to -1 hit points, you describe it as a mortal wound, then you're getting the flavor text wrong, and that's the source of your problem.3) Nonlethal damage means knocking someone out with no chance whatsoever of actually hurting them in the long term.&nbsp; It's actually kind of hard to do, and that's a good thing.&nbsp; If a pressure-point strike doesn't hit right on, it doesn't do much damage at all.&nbsp; That's as it should be.4) Don't forget that even if the target makes his save, he's dazed for one round.&nbsp; That gives the rest of the party a great chance to gather 'round and commence the pummeling.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="takyris, post: 920276, member: 5171"] You don't have to kill them. You have to take them to negative hit points. You're then free to treat their injury and ensure that they don't die. Or they could stabilize on their own. Really... Fort Save, DC20. What are the chances that someone's really going to die by failing this save a whole bunch of times. The Medic advanced class can bring someone back from -10 or lower. That means that -10 is NOT dead -- it's "near death". That makes the negatives even less like death. The negatives are just you being unconscious. I've said it multiple times, so I don't want to beat a dead horse, but: 1) It's not that hard to knock someone out with nonlethal damage. A high-level dude with a Tonfa and Power Attack can do it with very little trouble. A low-level guy with the right feats can do it, too. You get enough feats in this game that it's not that big a deal. 2) Taking someone into the negatives does not mean that you're killing them. It's not a mortal wound. It's an unconscious-level injury. If, every time someone in d20 Modern goes to -1 hit points, you describe it as a mortal wound, then you're getting the flavor text wrong, and that's the source of your problem. 3) Nonlethal damage means knocking someone out with no chance whatsoever of actually hurting them in the long term. It's actually kind of hard to do, and that's a good thing. If a pressure-point strike doesn't hit right on, it doesn't do much damage at all. That's as it should be. 4) Don't forget that even if the target makes his save, he's dazed for one round. That gives the rest of the party a great chance to gather 'round and commence the pummeling. [/QUOTE]

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