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<blockquote data-quote="MThibault" data-source="post: 920354" data-attributes="member: 7971">Maybe I'm missing something but a half-decent Strength Bonus will allow you to knock out an average person on a critical hit without any Feats or Talents.1d3+2, if you roll maximum damage on a critical you can force an opponent with a 10 Con to roll a Fort Save.A single feat (Brawl) will increase that to 16 Con, and at level 4 if you hike up that 15 to a 16 (assuming standard array, for, well, standardization) then you can knock out an opponent who has an 18 Con.Granted, the fight will probably take 20 or 30 rounds or more before someone gets knocked out -- but that's only 2-3 minutes of game time, or about the length of a boxing round, so it actually is pretty quick.&nbsp; If it takes 240 rounds and no one has been knocked out, then they've gone 12 rounds and the judges will have to make a decision.&nbsp; If you use subdual Damage/HP, then all boxers will have to have either a huge AC or 100+HP, or both, in order to last 10 or 12 rounds in the ring with even a mediocre opponent, and every match will end in a KO.Subdual Damage allows for cinematic and heroic D&amp;D style fights, but IMO it doesn't fit well with a Modern Game.Granted it would be nice to have an element of chance, so that a mediocre combattant could have a slim, slim chance of knocking out the tough bruiser, but the numbers are probably so small that it wouldn't be worth rolling.Cheers[edited to clarify some terminology]</blockquote>

[QUOTE="MThibault, post: 920354, member: 7971"] Maybe I'm missing something but a half-decent Strength Bonus will allow you to knock out an average person on a critical hit without any Feats or Talents. 1d3+2, if you roll maximum damage on a critical you can force an opponent with a 10 Con to roll a Fort Save. A single feat (Brawl) will increase that to 16 Con, and at level 4 if you hike up that 15 to a 16 (assuming standard array, for, well, standardization) then you can knock out an opponent who has an 18 Con. Granted, the fight will probably take 20 or 30 rounds or more before someone gets knocked out -- but that's only 2-3 minutes of game time, or about the length of a boxing round, so it actually is pretty quick. If it takes 240 rounds and no one has been knocked out, then they've gone 12 rounds and the judges will have to make a decision. If you use subdual Damage/HP, then all boxers will have to have either a huge AC or 100+HP, or both, in order to last 10 or 12 rounds in the ring with even a mediocre opponent, and every match will end in a KO. Subdual Damage allows for cinematic and heroic D&D style fights, but IMO it doesn't fit well with a Modern Game. Granted it would be nice to have an element of chance, so that a mediocre combattant could have a slim, slim chance of knocking out the tough bruiser, but the numbers are probably so small that it wouldn't be worth rolling. Cheers [edited to clarify some terminology] [/QUOTE]

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