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<blockquote data-quote="mikep18103" data-source="post: 920763" data-attributes="member: 4048">But isn't d20 modern a bit on the cinematic side to begin with&nbsp; MThibault?&nbsp; The way the rules are written for non-lethal combat if you have a Con of above 8 the average person with lets say even a +1 strength modifier and no training can never knock someone unconscious.&nbsp; They would do a 2d3+2 even with a critical hit max damage would be 8 points.Ok now I have no training in any form of combat, and have been in very few fights in my life but this seems a bit far fetch to think I could never hurt anyone in anyway but a skinny little dweb or a child.Now the subdual rules are apparently not the best way to correct the problem but there must be way to make this a little more realistic in my opinion.&nbsp; For now I'm going to use the rules as they are written but there must be a better solution out there.&nbsp; Things I can think of off the top of my head are:1.&nbsp; Lower the MDT for non-lethal damage (not a good idea).2.&nbsp; As the fight goes on, allow the non-lethal damage done to accumlate to up until it passes the targets MDT then have them make the FORT save.&nbsp; (not a horrible idea, but more book keeping).I don't know.&nbsp; I've used the rule the way it is written and I just don't like it very much.&nbsp; Guess you can't please everyone.Mike.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="mikep18103, post: 920763, member: 4048"] But isn't d20 modern a bit on the cinematic side to begin with MThibault? The way the rules are written for non-lethal combat if you have a Con of above 8 the average person with lets say even a +1 strength modifier and no training can never knock someone unconscious. They would do a 2d3+2 even with a critical hit max damage would be 8 points. Ok now I have no training in any form of combat, and have been in very few fights in my life but this seems a bit far fetch to think I could never hurt anyone in anyway but a skinny little dweb or a child. Now the subdual rules are apparently not the best way to correct the problem but there must be way to make this a little more realistic in my opinion. For now I'm going to use the rules as they are written but there must be a better solution out there. Things I can think of off the top of my head are: 1. Lower the MDT for non-lethal damage (not a good idea). 2. As the fight goes on, allow the non-lethal damage done to accumlate to up until it passes the targets MDT then have them make the FORT save. (not a horrible idea, but more book keeping). I don't know. I've used the rule the way it is written and I just don't like it very much. Guess you can't please everyone. Mike. [/QUOTE]

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