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<blockquote data-quote="Herschel" data-source="post: 4531093" data-attributes="member: 78357">But different than how some others above are using it because of WHEN the declaration of subdual happens. Sanzuo states the literal writing. Lord Tirian, Dream Chaser and Cube Knight are trying to expand the definition of Hit Points without addressing the core issue: You attack differently to subdue than to kill. In game terms this means telling the DM your intent to subdue PRIOR to getting the opponent to 0 HP, not afterwards. This also gives the &quot;bad guy&quot; more impetus to surrender when he wouldn't think you are flat-out trying to kill him.&nbsp;It's a little wonky because characters do have the negative HP buffer where bad guys generally don't (and PCs didn't originally either). That buffer has been expanding greatly in 4e (in many ways). I can see giving enemies somewhat &quot;equal footing&quot;, but again, it doesn't change the fundamental difference of actually attempting to knock someone out or cutting them up and THEN trying to stop the bleeding.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Herschel, post: 4531093, member: 78357"] But different than how some others above are using it because of WHEN the declaration of subdual happens. Sanzuo states the literal writing. Lord Tirian, Dream Chaser and Cube Knight are trying to expand the definition of Hit Points without addressing the core issue: You attack differently to subdue than to kill. In game terms this means telling the DM your intent to subdue PRIOR to getting the opponent to 0 HP, not afterwards. This also gives the "bad guy" more impetus to surrender when he wouldn't think you are flat-out trying to kill him. It's a little wonky because characters do have the negative HP buffer where bad guys generally don't (and PCs didn't originally either). That buffer has been expanding greatly in 4e (in many ways). I can see giving enemies somewhat "equal footing", but again, it doesn't change the fundamental difference of actually attempting to knock someone out or cutting them up and THEN trying to stop the bleeding. [/QUOTE]

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