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<blockquote data-quote="Greenfield" data-source="post: 6678969" data-attributes="member: 6669384">I'm sure that this has been beaten to death, but the topic is non-lethal damage in D&amp;D 3.0, 3.5 and Pathfinder.&nbsp; (I'm pretty sure the rules vary by edition, so please include Edition notes with your replies.)By the book, to do non-lethal weapon damage the attacker takes a -4 penalty to hit, but the damage is counted separately.&nbsp; When lethal and non-lethal add up to the target's hit points they drop unconscious.For spell casters there is a &quot;Non-Lethal Substitution&quot; feat.Some creatures aren't subject to non-lethal damage.&nbsp; Constructs come to mind at once, as do undead.Normally we think of non-lethal damage as &quot;flat of the blade&quot;, or perhaps as striking with the pommel (origin of the idea of &quot;pummeling&quot; someone BTW.).With ranged weapons I tend to think of them as &quot;flesh wounds&quot;, targeting non-vital areas.&nbsp; (There isn't really a &quot;Flat of the arrowhead&quot; to speak of.)Some DMs insist that a portion of the damage is still lethal.Since we have a lot of rules scholars here I thought I'd ask:&nbsp; How do you explain/visualize/justify non-lethal damage?For weapons, is it only melee?For spells, how does a &quot;non-lethal&quot; fireball look/work?Do you count some of it as lethal?&nbsp; What is the hard rule on that (meaning, RAW and the source)?Oddly, the Energy Substitution doesn't add to spell slot level, but Non-Lethal does.&nbsp; Further, you need a separate Non-Lethal Substitution for each energy type.&nbsp; It's like the authors are trying to actively discourage less deadly encounters.Anyway, what are your thoughts?&nbsp; How do you handle these things in your games?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Greenfield, post: 6678969, member: 6669384"] I'm sure that this has been beaten to death, but the topic is non-lethal damage in D&D 3.0, 3.5 and Pathfinder. (I'm pretty sure the rules vary by edition, so please include Edition notes with your replies.) By the book, to do non-lethal weapon damage the attacker takes a -4 penalty to hit, but the damage is counted separately. When lethal and non-lethal add up to the target's hit points they drop unconscious. For spell casters there is a "Non-Lethal Substitution" feat. Some creatures aren't subject to non-lethal damage. Constructs come to mind at once, as do undead. Normally we think of non-lethal damage as "flat of the blade", or perhaps as striking with the pommel (origin of the idea of "pummeling" someone BTW.). With ranged weapons I tend to think of them as "flesh wounds", targeting non-vital areas. (There isn't really a "Flat of the arrowhead" to speak of.) Some DMs insist that a portion of the damage is still lethal. Since we have a lot of rules scholars here I thought I'd ask: How do you explain/visualize/justify non-lethal damage? For weapons, is it only melee? For spells, how does a "non-lethal" fireball look/work? Do you count some of it as lethal? What is the hard rule on that (meaning, RAW and the source)? Oddly, the Energy Substitution doesn't add to spell slot level, but Non-Lethal does. Further, you need a separate Non-Lethal Substitution for each energy type. It's like the authors are trying to actively discourage less deadly encounters. Anyway, what are your thoughts? How do you handle these things in your games? [/QUOTE]

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