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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ZombieRoboNinja" data-source="post: 6366864" data-attributes="member: 54843">I think to evaluate the saving throw situation you need to look at each save individually.Strength: Not a problem. If you fail a Str saving throw, usually the worst that'll happen is you'll get tossed around a bit.Dex: Dex saves are awesome if you have Evasion, but then I believe every class that can get Evasion already has proficiency. Without it, quite often you're only saving for half damage. So the difference between passing and failing a Dex save is often not a game-breaking difference.Con: Con saves are often either very temporary disabling effects (Ray of Enfeeblement) or half-damage saves (Cone of Cold). Failing these might cost you an action or reduce your effectiveness, but again, not usually a game-changer. Even Power Word: Stun at level 8 gets a save every round.Int: This can make a big difference where it does matter (Feeblemind), but frankly that's not very often. You'll probably go a whole campaign and make less than half a dozen of these.Cha: Same as Int. Getting banished will suck (for your party if not for you), but there aren't that many effects that target Charisma.Wis: Hoo boy. Here it is. Wisdom saves are not only often very important, but they're also usually all-or-nothing. Fail a save against Dominate Person and you're worse than dead. Wisdom saves are clearly the most game-changing saves there are. To make things worse, they are often "balanced" by offering multiple saves (like when you are dominated and take damage), which is fine if you have even a 30% chance to save but not when you're a 10 Wisdom fighter trying to beat a DC19 spell.That's probably why Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Warlock, and Wizard all start with Wisdom save proficiency, Monk and Rogue GET Wis save proficiency as a class ability, berserker barbarians get immunity to charm and frighten effects while raging, hunter rangers can get advantage on saves against frighten, etc.So in other words, the real issue here is mostly with the actual minority of classes and subclasses (hi fighters!) that don't have any way to boost their Wisdom saves, short of taking the Resilient feat. These are the most important saves to make for the good of the entire group. Now, there are definitely ways to boost your chances (sticking close to the paladin, getting bardic inspiration, etc). So I'd have to play a lot more at high levels in various group setups to see whether they are, in fact, "broken."</blockquote>

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