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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TheGorramBatman" data-source="post: 6367259" data-attributes="member: 6778804">...or they made up for it by being terrible at virtually everything (e.g. Fighter/Rogue).The save situation doesn't look too bad for me, but I never graduated to 4th edition.  The situation in 3.5 and 3.P at high levels is in a fairly similar boat between the haves and have nots of high/low saves.  Having a base +6 against save DCs capable of being in the low 30s is pretty brutal.So while I don't think things look worse than the games I'm used to playing, I am disappointed that it doesn't look better.  Save DCs potentially being autofail* is not a fun game mechanic.  Getting to "reroll" my autofail save every round isn't much of a consolation prize.We will see how things go.  I'm sure once we get a better idea of the magic item types/frequency, the situation may change a bit.  I wouldn't be opposed to giving players half their proficiency bonus on non proficient save bonuses if things end up pretty bad.*I found a paragraph stating that a 20 on an attack roll is always a hit and a 1 on an attack roll is always a miss.  I have not found a paragraph stating the same for saving throws or ability checks (which there probably isn't.  It works this way in Pathfinder as well).  This could easily lead to characters with the default array or point buy in autofail situations at high level.</blockquote>