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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MarauderX" data-source="post: 1270233" data-attributes="member: 9990">Kinda sounds like things are running amok among your players to me.  Since there are 8 of them, they probably have enough time to chat and goof off about what is happening, and they don't really want to think too much so they wait for you to carry the story for them.  I took over as DM for a smaller group that behaved a lot like you are saying, so I tried a few things to get them to care and think for themselves.  IMO you would be ok if a few players dropped or joined another group.  Add in more consequences for actions to their PCs, and not as much as to your game world because players don't care about it as much as their own PCs.  If you keep giving them direction they will keep taking it, such as 'cleric, you could use a commune to find out the next thing...', so spell it out for them in a different way next time.  Right now it sounds like you as the DM are leading the way for the players, giving them direction as to what to do next so why would they bother to think for themselves when you are just going to tell them.  You may have everything all worked out for them in your mind, and instead of leading them around to follow the steps you have mapped out, just let them go.  I never rely on a PC to use a spell to figure out the next course of action, I always give the players a good clue about what/where is the next plot point to chase.  A good way to take off a lot of the burden is to find/buy an adventure as they usually have enough pointers for the PCs to investigate on their own.Also it sounds like your BBEG was a little too big/bad for the party of slackers and you let the party live when many should have died.  They won't really care about beating the BBEG if they don't see any consequences they can directly relate to them, so make them care by bribery (save the merchant's daughter for a load of cash & magic instead of the kindness of their hearts) or other means.  Get them to care about their PCs, as it seems a TPK doesn't scare them too much whenever you rein in your BBEG from killing them.  Try this, put them up against a load of lower CR critters against them, and don't let up on them.  The critters gang up on one PC at a time, to which that player will ask for help from the others.  The other players may not care too much, thinking that you won't kill him because you didn't kill them before.  Kill the PC.  Then move on to the next one, ganging up on the melee PCs first if they get into the thick of it, targeting only one at a time no matter what.  Show them you mean business and your soft gentle side is now gone.  Kill as many as you can.  They may rebuke after what just happened as your higher level heroes run away from a vicious pack of gnolls who know how to use flanking & backstab as well as use 5' steps with long reach weapons efficiently.  They will want to know why you used uber-gnolls on them for a simple encounter, and just tell them they were normal critters.  You may lose the lazier players out of it, as they will think it was unfair compared to the waltzing around they have done through adventures past, so tell them it's not going to be as easy anymore.  Don't be too upset about things like this though, it's a process of gaming.  It's supposed to be fun, not confrontational or frustrating.  Roll with the comments and let them slide off of you, it's only a way of feedback after all.</blockquote>

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