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Non-stealth surprise
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<blockquote data-quote="thethain" data-source="post: 7111710" data-attributes="member: 6874561"><p>This brings up the problem with Surprise in 5e. The stated scenario is the perfect example.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Guards escorting PCs.</p><p>Barbarian PLAYER says "I want to attack the guards"</p><p><em>initiative</em> </p><p>Guards roll high, Beat up the barbarian.</p><p>Barbarian turn, who has not even drawn his weapon yet. </p><p>Barbarian says "Why are you attacking me!!!"</p><p></p><p>To an outside observer a bunch of guards just beat up someone they were escorting for no reason.</p><p></p><p>Now a clever DM can play around this scenario to act more accordingly.</p><p></p><p>Guards roll high.</p><p>Guards ready action to attack anyone acts in a hostile manner (attack or reach for weapon).</p><p>Barbarian reaches for axe, and is then pummeled by a dozen guards.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>However the scenario is even sillier when you get say an Assassin rogue into the mix. </p><p></p><p>Assassin has sharpshooter feat, and is hidden 600 feet away from a lone sentry.</p><p>Assassin "I attack him"</p><p><em>INITIATIVE</em></p><p>Guard rolls high.</p><p>Assassin says, eh I don't attack if I won't get my assassinate ability.</p><p></p><p>Do you continue in initiative for the next hour the assassin watches the sentry? Or does he get to attempt again after a round, 10 rounds? Keep in mind nothing has happened from the perspective of the sentry this entire time.</p><p></p><p>BACK to the point. I would say you can surprise people who are aware of you, for example in a crowded bar if you decide to deck the person beside you ordering drinks, they are surprised. However, if you are dealing with a guard, who is on duty, who is escorting you, you are not surprising him, if they didn't consider you a threat they wouldn't be escorting you. I might allow someone to get a surprise round betraying allies in that kind of situation. You are on patrol with friendly guards then stab one in the back. Although rather than a true surprise round I would probably just have normal initiative and the ones in front of you not really do anything on their turn, and you count as hidden for the one attack.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="thethain, post: 7111710, member: 6874561"] This brings up the problem with Surprise in 5e. The stated scenario is the perfect example. Guards escorting PCs. Barbarian PLAYER says "I want to attack the guards" [I]initiative[/I] Guards roll high, Beat up the barbarian. Barbarian turn, who has not even drawn his weapon yet. Barbarian says "Why are you attacking me!!!" To an outside observer a bunch of guards just beat up someone they were escorting for no reason. Now a clever DM can play around this scenario to act more accordingly. Guards roll high. Guards ready action to attack anyone acts in a hostile manner (attack or reach for weapon). Barbarian reaches for axe, and is then pummeled by a dozen guards. However the scenario is even sillier when you get say an Assassin rogue into the mix. Assassin has sharpshooter feat, and is hidden 600 feet away from a lone sentry. Assassin "I attack him" [I]INITIATIVE[/I] Guard rolls high. Assassin says, eh I don't attack if I won't get my assassinate ability. Do you continue in initiative for the next hour the assassin watches the sentry? Or does he get to attempt again after a round, 10 rounds? Keep in mind nothing has happened from the perspective of the sentry this entire time. BACK to the point. I would say you can surprise people who are aware of you, for example in a crowded bar if you decide to deck the person beside you ordering drinks, they are surprised. However, if you are dealing with a guard, who is on duty, who is escorting you, you are not surprising him, if they didn't consider you a threat they wouldn't be escorting you. I might allow someone to get a surprise round betraying allies in that kind of situation. You are on patrol with friendly guards then stab one in the back. Although rather than a true surprise round I would probably just have normal initiative and the ones in front of you not really do anything on their turn, and you count as hidden for the one attack. [/QUOTE]
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