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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Flamestrike" data-source="post: 7115516" data-attributes="member: 6788736">What of one of the PCs wants to intervene to stop the Barbarian? And the 'Knights' I was referring to do have an ability to use reactions. Specifically they have the parry reaction.  And even if they are just generic mooks, they have attacks of opportunity as reactions. Everyone gets those. If our barbarian wanted to move past a NPC to get to his target, or attack one and then run away, whether our surprised mooks go first on round one or the barbarian does becomes extremely important. And its also relevant for other things like certain class features and abilities (such as if any of the PCs have the assassinate ability or other things that only work when a creature is surprised). A creature is only surprised on round one before its initiative count comes around and it takes its first turn (even though it cant act on that turn).I mean yeah, sure; if there is literally no reactions to worry about from either side (including attacks of opportunity), whether the NPC is surprised or not doesnt matter for any other reason like assasinate or similar features, and the barbarian is all but assured of killing the NPC in one attack meaning initiative wont need to be rolled after the attack in any event, and the combat wont be extending beyond a single round, then it makes sense not to roll initiative before the attack.Of course in that case, why are you even rolling an attack? If you're only not rolling initiative because the prospect of combat breaking out after the surprise attack is next to zero, why even roll anything?I'm just trying to throw some advice your way brother. If you want to run your games freeform with no dice at all go nuts.Im just saying that you really should be rolling initiative before any combat actions are resolved. Its a pretty fundamental rule, that a lot of other rules, class features and abilities key off it, and its not exactly a complex or time consuming one either. My second point wasn't directed at you personally. Its just I've had bad experiences with DMs screwing up surprise in 5E and would personally walk from a game where it happened again. Screwing it up is generally a sign of a DM who doesnt understand the rules, and I dont have room in my leisure time to waste it with those three kinds of games. I like my DMs being knowledgeable of the rules, and applying them evenly, consistently and fairly. I dont mind houserules, even extensive houserules, as long as I know what they are, and they exist for a reason I can get on board with.</blockquote>

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