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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Water Bob" data-source="post: 5596154" data-attributes="member: 92305">That's a good idea, too. I was thinking that I didn't want to make the rule too complicated, though. Because of that, I'm leaning to the "either/or" idea where the damage will either be lethal or nonlethal. What I'm questioning is...just how often should a nonlethal blow deliver lethal damage? Is 25% of the time a good number???      Yeah, and I like the uncertainty of the way I'm going. I don't want my player to count on delivering nonlethal damage. They probably will knock the prisoner out, but they may beat him to death. The chance is there. And, I like how a critical can be either lethal or nonlethal damage. 25% seems to be a good number. But, I have to think of all instances. It's not easy to beat someone to death with your fists in just a few blows, so I don't want to make fist-fighting too dangerous. At the same time, if the players keep pounding on a downed victim, the victim should take some lethal damage--not just be unconscious for a long time.       IDEA: How about a very low probability of delivering nonlethal damage as long as the target is not helpless (not unconscious or not tied up and can defend himself), then the lethal damage chance increases depending on the victim's state. If the target is defending himself, lethal damage is 1 in 30 (a reason to use the 30 sider! This is debatable...can be 1 in 20 or 1 in 12, whatever you think). If the target is unaware of you or tied up, lethal damage is 1 in 4. If the target is unconscious, lethal damage is 50% (odd damage is lethal, even damage is nonlethal). How about something like that? Too complicated, or just right?     EDIT: I'm liking the versatile nonlethal damage set-up. I'm envisioning three categories. You've got one where nonlethal damage is very likely (need to determine %); one where nonlethal damage is likely, but there is a decent chance for lethal damage (25%); and one where lethal damage is just as likely as nonlethal damage (50%). What you choose is based on the circumstances. You can also change categories based on the weapon you use. Your fists and feet as weapons normally call for the very likely method. If the target is tied up or unaware of you when you strike, also use the very likely method. But, if the target is unconscious, use the likely method--you skip down one category. If your victim is bound but conscious. You're torturning him? Beating him? If you use a sap or a bar of lard wrapped in a cloth, these weapons are designed for nonlethal damage, so you use the likely method. But, if you pick up a sword, using the flat side of it, or a bat, skip down a category and use the 50% method, even though you take the -4 attack penlaty to deliever nonlethal damage. Or, let's say the Crime kingpin orders his men to take you out into the yard and give you a good arse-kicking. They use only their hands and feet. Normally this would be the very likely method, but we skip down a category to the likely method because, for all practical purposes, with that many men around you, the conditions are similar to you being bound and beaten by one man. We use the likely method. Very likely.Likely.Half. Three nonlethal damage categories based on victim condition and weapon used.       2nd EDIT:  If the Half category is 50%, and the Likely category is 25%, then doesn't it seem reasonable that the very likey category is 12.5%? If so, with the Half category we use the even/odd damage thing (50%).  Works well. With the Likely category, we use the d4 (1 in 4 = 25%). With the Very Likely category, we use the d8 (1 in 8 = 12.5%) With each category, the chance for lethal damage doubles. That seems like a nice rule, eh?</blockquote>

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